Saturday, April 27, 2024

Blowback designs: Back of envelope calcs

Picture in your head that you are sitting on a motionless platform in the middle of a perfectly flat, level floor. The platform is resting on ball-bearings. You hold a spud-gun in your arms.

For the sake of simplicity, let us suppose that you, the spud-gun and the platform weigh 222.2 pounds and further, let us suppose that the potato in the spud-gun weighs 2.2 pounds.

For the sake of convenience, we will define the center-of-mass for your universe (everything above the floor) as the "zero" of our coordinate system. No matter how you wiggle-and-jiggle atop the platform, the center-of-mass of that universe does not move from the zero which was the creator (me) painted on the floor.

Getting bored, you raise the spud-gun to your shoulder and launch the 2.2 pound spud horizontally at 100 inches per second. The seconds tick off the clock. The center-of-mass of the system remains stationary while the spud moves off at 100 feet per second and you+platform+empty spud-gun move in the opposite direction at 1.0 feet per second.

Counter-intuitive? There were no external forces exerted on your universe so the center-of-mass which was stationary remains stationary even though the individual pieces are moving through space.

Hold that thought...

The CCArms LGB series PCCs

Rounding up, it might be capable of launching a 147 grain bullet and the gasses produced by 7 grains of powder at 1100 feet per second.

An extreme example of a case that bulged in the region where the barrel was notched out to accommodate the extractor and/or feed-ramp.

The residual pressure in the barrel just before the bullet clears the muzzle will be on the order of 7000psi-to-10000psi so there is still the potential of the brass case rupturing if it is unsupported by the cylinder. The tricky part is that it can be partially unsupported and the thin brass wall will bulge and carry the pressure load in membrane mode but it will rupture if the distance is too much or the pressure is too high.

Another, less severe example of bulging

It is assumed that the pressure of the hot gas in the barrel will evacuate very quickly after the bullet's base clears the muzzle.

Skipping a bunch of math, if the head of the case can only move backwards 1 millimeter (0.40") then the bolt must weigh about three pounds. If it can move backwards 2 millimeters then the bolt must weigh about 1.5 pounds. If it can move back 3 millimeters then the bolt can weigh about 1 pound.

Increasing the barrel length to squeeze out a few more fps forces the designer to use a heavier bolt to meet the (admittedly arbitrary) 3mm extraction criteria. The heavier bolt requires a longer receiver and increases the likelihood of the plastic parts being damaged when the weapon is dropped.

In a similar vein, making the barrel shorter would allow the designer to use a lighter bolt, making a lighter and shorter firearm but at a loss of velocity/energy of the bullet.

Secondary factors:

There will be friction between the case and the walls of the chamber. That might reduce the thrust by 15%...or it might reduce it by 0% or by 50%. Friction is goofy and the wise designer doesn't hang his hat on it being reproduceable.

The 147 grain load is not very common. The most common is 115 grains but many shooters like 124 grains. The lighter projectiles will result in less movement of the bolt as the projectile clears the muzzle.

Back to calcs

You will notice that there has been no mention of springs. That is because of the very small distances traveled.

The energy stored in a spring is 0.5*K*d*d where "K" is the stiffness or spring-rate and "d" is the amount of compression from the free-state.

In theory, you could design a mechanism with the spring at its fully extended, free-length when the bolt has the head of the case fully inserted into the chamber BUT nobody ever does that for various reasons.

So you are looking at an energy formula of  0.5 * K * (d2*d2 - d1*d1) where d1 is the less compressed distance and d2 is the more compressed (bolt back) state.

That energy will equal the kinetic energy of the bolt as the bullet clears the muzzle. In our example that would be 1/2 * mass * velocity * velocity. In metric, that would be 1/2 * 0.5kg * 6.8m/s * 6.8m/s or 11.5 Joules. In our example, the backward speed of the bolt is 1/50th the speed of the projectile by virtue of their relative masses and conservation of momentum. You can pencil it out or you can play around with parts and spacers (to adjust pre-compression of the spring) to make it work.

One of the beauties of a carbine is that you can absorb all (or nearly all) of the recoil in your spring. The packaging and handling constraints make that impossible in a handgun. If you made the spring stiff enough to absorb all of the energy in the limited length of travel, it would be impossible to rack. Consequently, much of the energy is dumped into the frame when the slide hits the stops at the end-of-rearward travel. That impact plays hell on the frame due to the stresses it creates.

19 comments:

  1. There are many who still find it impossible to rack. Anything.
    Like my wife.
    So I bought her a Girsan MC14-T with a tip up barrel like the Berretta it is almost copied off of.
    It's .380 and blowback. Not even an ejector.
    Tip up. Load. Close. Pull trigger.

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    1. Good for you to recognize the issue and to find a solution that works for both of you!!!

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    2. It seems the physics doesn't like blowback above .380 :)

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    3. Yes, but... The Hi-Point Firearms Company begs to differ. They've made a business around carbines and handguns, all blow-back. Calibers .380 thru 9mm, .45ACP and even 10mm. Clunky? Yes. Functional? Mostly. Ugly? And then some. Inexpensive? Very.
      'Real' gun owners diss the Hi-Point brands, but they all-in-all make good guns.
      Check out James Reeves and The Firearms Blog utube channel on the Yeet Cannon and others. I think you'll find it interesting.
      Alan E.

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    4. I'm a Hi-Point fan. But I did not know that about their higher calibers. Thanks.
      I saw a video of one being drug down a dirt road on a chain and shooting fine. It's a tool.

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  2. ERJ: Way back when I was in school I found taking lecture notes was impossible with some teachers. A very few others, like a dream. This post reads like the latter. Moar, please!
    Also, what caliber potato for home invader?

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    1. Opinions are like belly-buttons.

      I prefer plugs cut in the shape of soup-cans with the plugs being 42.5mm in diameter before freezing. As you know, freezing them increases their ability to penetrate.

      Boring a cavity in the front of the projectile and filling with shredded cheese and cayenne pepper is not mandatory but is recommended in jurisdictions that frown upon home-defense.

      Doing that gives your attorney the option of using the "My client shot a seasoned criminal and au Gratin guy" defense.

      The advantage of using 42.5mm launcher tube is that you can also use it to cheat at golf.

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    2. "au Gratin" Groan! I had no idea there were such nuances to this subject.
      1 1/2in schedule 40 steel pipe has an inside diameter of 40.9mm. Hmm, 1.6mm difference. Gotta go look up o-ring dimensions... Or, like a muzzle loader, perhaps a paper patch soaked in bacon grease.

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    3. Bacon grease. Repelling Muslims since...forever.

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  3. I have an AR-15 pistol in 7.62x39 that I love.
    Of course, it is not a blow back, but for the reasons you mention, I was forced to consider changing something to get it to rack the next round.
    It was either not enough gas (expense to modify) to send the bolt carrier back far enough to allow the next round to clear ir coming up, or too heavy a bolt carrier (expense to modify), or too stiff a spring.
    I cut 1/2" off the spring, then another 1/4".
    So now the bolt carrier gets to hammer the frame coming back harder than it was. Oh, well.
    This was a stock gun.

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    Replies
    1. There is an adjustable buffer weight kit made by kak industries.

      I just got mine and I haven't been able to test it out and I'm not even sure it will relieve the sensitivity to ammunition my gun has but it was only $45 and it's not a permanent change.

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  4. Hrrrrmmmmmm. Gawd it has been years since I did impulse, momentum and kinetic physics. If I were a dink (...AND I'M NOT!!!!) I'd want to see your assumptions annotated and explained, and then we'd need to get the finger puppets and colouring books out while you led me through the math. I used to love simple math like this.

    As you said, the human body is a shock absorber in all this too. My patty-cake target loads will jam like crazy if you 'limp-wrist' the pistol one iota. You have to grip it solidly and control the recoil and it runs like a top.

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    1. See comments below.

      Also, one potential "spur" or "stub" to the fiction would be if the supply of jacketed bullets dries up. The 9mm Luger is not a cast-bullet dream like the .38 Special. You just cannot drive a cast wheel-weight 9mmL bullet lubed with lard-and-beeswax as hard as you can drive a copper-patched bullet. I wish it were not so, but it is.

      So little Sissy is taking care of business and has to shoot around a corner and does it by holding out the weapon, one-handed, and pulling the trigger.

      If you were her dad, wouldn't you like the weapon to cycle and put another bullet into the chamber?

      I am a sloppy writer. I leave a lot of "stubs" that do not get exploited but that simulates real-life. It is there if I need it.

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  5. Shouldn't that be 220.4 pounds?

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    1. (Eyes darting side-to-side, nervously) Well, see here young man...back of envelope calculations are to establish viability and you are doing extra-spiffy-good if you are within 10%. They are a stake-in-the-ground. A starting point for empirical exploration of possibilities.

      Honest.

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  6. Dean Grennell mentioned using cut off 7.62 x 51 cases, neck boring them and annealing to create the...... 45 Super. With the thicker web you lose case capacity, but get around the bulge. The 45 bulge is from the feed ramp. Part of the case head is therefore unsupported, and a regular case will bulge if you +P it. Reloading comes into play, or buying some 45 Super brass if you can find it. If you plan to use a 1911, it needs heavier springs, and a good inspection. Frame cracking and slide cracking are issues. Ace Hindman used to be the goto for the 1911 45 Super. Dean Grennell was quite a guy. KYHOOYA!

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  7. A friend of mine bought one of the semi-uto only copies of a Russian PPSH sub machine gun a few years back. 7.62 Tokarev, I think it was. Since we were shooting steel plates, he worked up a light cast bullet load for it. It still functioned 100%, even though the spring appeared to absorb ALL the recoil energy of the bolt. It came back far enough to pick up another round, but not enough to hit the rear of the receiver. Had a funny "feel" when shooting, gun kind of "rocked" back, then back forward as the bolt chambered the next round. I'm assuming it is a blowback design.

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  8. Took me a couple of readings to parse your comment about bolt travel in pistols versus PCC. Basically the pistol is under length constraints, there's no room to spare (e.g. for an extended buffer tube), limited allowance for bolt over-travel.

    The extra room for recoil travel was considered a feature in open bolt SMGs, allowed the gun to cycle reliably even with inconsistent powder loads. A bad batch of powder would result in a higher rate of fire.

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