Sunday, January 23, 2022

Interesting developments

APPLETON - ThedaCare officials are asking Outagamie County judge Mark McGinnis to pause the recruitment of seven of their employees to Ascension Northeast Wisconsin, arguing the move will endanger patients in the region who need treatment for strokes and traumatic injuries.

In a Thursday interview with The Post-Crescent, ThedaCare leaders said Ascension recruited a group of ThedaCare employees from its interventional radiology and cardiovascular team. That team performs procedures to stop bleeding in targeted areas during a traumatic injury or restore blood flow to the brain in the case of a stroke.

Seven of 11 employees on that team accepted offers with Ascension and will start there next week if the court does not act, said Lynn Detterman, ThedaCare's senior vice president for its south region.



A judge has granted ThedaCare a temporary
(90 day) restraining order in a dispute with Ascension Wisconsin.

Thursday morning, ThedaCare filed for a temporary injunction against Ascension Wisconsin, saying it could cause the community harm by recruiting a majority of ThedaCare’s comprehensive stroke care team.

On Friday, an Outagamie County judge ruled in favor of ThedaCare
ERJ note: Temporary replacement workers are available on a per-diem basis but they are expensive. $5000 a week for a trained Oncology nurse is not unheard of. It isn't that ThedaCare cannot find workers, it cannot find workers at wages it wants to pay.

I wonder how soon this trickles down to the workers at the Dollar Store and Krogers. "Welcome to the Hotel California, you can check-out any time you like...."

Anti-hoarding propaganda

Everybody with a brain now looks at the government the way the Skipper looked at Gilligan. Ask Gilligan for advice and then do the opposite.

Romance in tumultuous times

Belladonna and her beau seem to mesh well. 

My niece Lindsay has a boyfriend but none of the family has met him. It may have something to do with Lindsay's brothers' love of turning money into smoke, noise and holes in things. That, and the fact that one of them owns a backhoe.

Nothing like a small boat and a tempest to convince people to cling to one another.


A young person recently informed me that human pheromones absolutely do not exist. These are the kinds of things you learn in a mandatory Human Sexuality class in a public university.

Being curious, I went to and searched "human pheromones".

One of the top four hits was published in 1971 so I ignored that one.

The gentlest response I can make is that there is insufficient evidence to conclusively state that human pheromones do or do-not exist.

It is odd that they demand a precise neural-chemical pathway equivalent of the Kreb's Cycle before admitting that human pheromones exist but have no problem accepting scores of genders when only XX-XY-(rarely) YY chromosome combinations exist.


  1. You know, forcing people to work for you doesn't result in their best work... I bet they all get sick often from now on. I also suspect there will be an appeal of this.

    I'm surprised the woman in the post on buying food isn't wearing a mask.
    And of course they are abusing the language; hoarding is buying large amounts when there are several shortages- we're not at that point.

    1. Well, Jonathan, you might end up with a different answer regarding "best work" if the client is not the sick person but the government that is footing the bill.

      You are absolutely right if the client is the patient but I can quibble that if the client is the government you-are-good-to-go as long as you have the warm-bodies with the proper credentials in the facility.

  2. Now I read the article - that made it worse; their current employer refused to make a counter offer and is filing suit based on a claim of group recruitment that they know is false... Ugh, this will NOT help their public image!

  3. ERJ, in my industry (biopharmaceutical) there is always a point at which the company goes from "easy to hire people" to "people leaving in dribs and drabs then droves". Pay is paramount, but also the ability to advance in one's career and be treated well. And no-one likes the sense that they "have" to stay somewhere - unless, like serfs of old, we become bound to the land.

    I did see the "no hoarding" request. If this is not a sign we have entered both Soviet Propaganda and End Game world, I am not sure what is.

    Glad that Bella and Beau are meshing. If, for some reason, you feel that a swordsman might make a useful "third wheel", by all means, happy to assist. It has done wonders to get the attention of the young men here that have stopped by.

  4. Human pheromones must exist.

    I know women that exude femininity. I can't explain it. But I know it when I meet them.

  5. The same type of employee recruitment is happening in the assisted living facilities, especially among those employees whom are not RNs, but are "licensed" as nursing assistants. My Mum, who is in an assisted living facility, tells me the turnover is rather frequent. But she also tells me that some of those recruited away due to higher wages, have returned, finding that the grass though it may be richer, it is not greener.

  6. ERJ there's a lawyer up your way that has a you tube channel(Lehto's law) that talked about this yesterday. He gave a fairly complete overview that maybe worth viewing. The only point That I think he missed was the chilling effect that this could have on the hospital's other employees that wish to improve their take home.

  7. I can only guess that one part of DHS does not read what another part puts out.

  8. Looks like ThedaCare has screwed the pooch. Generally when a bunch of folks from one area leave en masse, they are leaving a bad situation/manager, money considerations are secondary. Also, since they've proven they will sic their lawyers on their employees, who will want to work for them now?

  9. ERJ,

    I am a healthcare recruiter. On one hand it does make a company/hospital mad when someone recruits out a significant portion of their staff. It is generally legal but it is considered a bad practice. Take one or two now and then but not a large number. Part of reason it doesnt happen more often is there are always another hospital or clinic somewhere that will pay even more money. So typically hospitals have a sort of " gentlemen's agreement" to not poach from one another . Having said that, it is also true that if any one hospital has very low wages or has a bad work environment eventually the word gets around.I dont see this ending well for Thedacare and may actually end badly for both hospital groups.( Personally I rarely recruit directly from a hospital. I place ads and get the word out in various ways that a hospital is hiring. Then if workers contact me directly I didnt poach as such)

    1. The other hospital denies "poaching".

      Interesting time

  10. I don't understand how this judge thinks he has the authority to "mandate" these workers stay where they are. The workers should all walk off, today.

    1. He doesn't have the authority to make them stay at the 1st hospital. The employees have been told they can not start work at the 2nd hospital. What this means is the workers aren't working anywhere. No income no bills being paid except from their savings. In theory we should hear more today or tomorrow. But if this goes much longer the employees are likely to counter sue hospital number one for their lost wages and probably punitive damages(the lawyers have to make something don't cha know.

  11. Ah... salary issues, once again. Re the take what you need, I was in Tokyo just after Fukushima. There was NO hoarding. Granted that many shopped each day, but ONLY taking enough for that day. Water, toilet paper, and general consumables that would disappear over here in a heartbeat were still on the shelves.

  12. Ref "poaching", I agree with the above commenters. First off, folks un ass an employer in droves, because they have successfully been convinced that the employer that they are departing, sucks. In order to convince a significant fraction of you staff that you suck, all at once, you really have to work at it.

    I have been an RN for night onto 40 + years. Nurses are nesting creatures: typically, they land somewhere, stay there, and then, eventually, move on. "Eventually" was on the order of 8 years , back when I was a nursing supervisor.

    Money is simply the lightning rod for departing an organization that has bad management, either the managers, the culture, the policies and procedures, or all of the above.

    And, I agree as well with the recruiting implications of the departure hospital's legal shenanigans. "Gosh, I should work for Butthead Community Hospital! When I am ready to leave, they'll sue me! Fun times!"

    I wonder what the productivity of that team is going to be, moving forward? I anticipate lots of canceled procedures due to missed elements of prep, or equipment out of service, etcetera.

    Reflects very poorly on the administration (a) that these folks sought to depart, en masse, as well as (b) that they brought attorneys and the courts into the conversation, at all. They might start to look like a ghost town.

    Betcha the nursing staff starts to look at OT with considerable disfavor!

  13. One wonders if the current employer mandates and the other does not...

  14. A few thoughts:

    1: The injunction is already lifted. I'm mystified it was granted in the 1st place as one of the prongs of the test for an injunction is likely to prevail in the action. Poaching is not only legal, agreements to not poach are illegal (albeit routine in many industries). There may be some healthcare specific nuance here, but I am unaware of such a thing existing and did short look.

    2: Thedra's complaints are legally nonsense (as reported), I'd love if someone could post an link that had their court filings, but even taking their reported allegations as true it would be 100% legal and above board as far as I know.

    3: While I hope they do sue for their lost wages (even though it was just a few shifts), I'm doubtful it will happen because even in aggregate there is very little money to be made, and the person most responsible (the judge who made the strange ruling) is immune to suit.

    1. So a 90 day stay is 25% of these peoples wages for a year. You may not be able to sue the judge but he'd sure as heck better hope he doesn't need medical care involving a nurse.

    2. Sorry, I should have made this a bullet point. They are free to start tomorrow, the injunction is lifted.

      The total stay was only 3 or 4 days. So the total damages would be 7 people X 3 days, assuming they all wanted to start immediately which is probably unlikely.

    3. Read ERJ's update. A judge gave a 90 day TRO to ThedaCare to prevent starting the new gig.

    4. The media coverage is slow, they are starting to get this put out, but here's the docket:

      "Additional text:
      Court finds that ThedaCare has not met their burden. Court removes Injunction and denies request for relief by ThedaCare."

      They are free to work, as it should be.

  15. Pheromones. They should ask a dog.

  16. I am ugly as a mud fence, but some wimmins used to get attracted to me.

    T'wasn't a muscular physique or big income or big junk, but I got my share when they got a whiff of this hunka hunka burnin' love.

  17. Amazing how people (a) think that we can measure everything now, and (b) go on to quickly conclude that if it can't be measured, it doesn't exist.

    The empty shelves are increasing here now. Wen to 2 supermarkets today to get everything we need. The first one was worse today than a week ago; Inventory product is stacked maybe one or two cans deep on the shelf, with the rest of the shelf empty behind. Same items as last week still completely out of stock. Second store, a bigger newer grocery: Same situation.