I was having a conversation with a friend about how gun owners seemed to gravitate into one of several different "camps".
Guns are tools, just like hammers and wrenches and screwdrivers. There is no "one right gun" just like there is no tool that you can put in a toolbox that will allow you to throw away all of your other tools. (No, Cindy. Not even credit cards).
That said, the best gateway into shooting sports is to identify the task(s) that resonate with the person who is seriously considering making the leap.
Some gun owners are extremely energized by training and competing with a handgun in realistic, defensive scenarios. Basically, playing Hawaii-Five-O in real life with a stop-watch running. International Defensive Pistol Association events, for example. After learning the basic blocking-and-tackling of safe shooting with a 22 handgun, they will probably graduate to a mid-sized 9mm.
Some gun owners ask much less of their firearm. They visualize walking through the fields and woods and occasionally shooting a bunny or squirrel and then preparing it for food.
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| A 12 or 20 gauge, pump shotgun is the equivalent of the 12", adjustable, Amish hammer. It does everything equally poorly. |
Some gun owners are enchanted by the purity of precision rifle shooting where you are exploding eggs at 100 yards and are able to hit a cup-of-coffee at 300 yards. Depending on their budget, they might start with a Savage bolt action and move on from there.
Some gun owners just want something to stop the things that go bump-in-the-night. Pretty much anything that goes bang is their huckleberry...even the lowly Hi-Point .380
Some gun owners are into the history of guns. Perhaps they feel affiliation with a certain country or are drawn to the drama of a particular war. Some are reenactors and particular kinds of weapons are part of the regalia. I suppose somebody who wants the same kind of gun Grandpappy had falls into this camp. It is a nostalgia thing. It could be a Winchester Model 1895 or a Browning A5 Shotgun.
The risk of a newbie approaching us and asking our opinion is that we might not take the time to ask-and-listen. We might vomit our opinions on the newbie without considering their motivations and their unique needs.
What do you guys think? Not so much about the specific firearms but about the groupings? What am I missing?
Yep - it falls into "What is the worlds best car" type of discussion.
ReplyDeleteThe glib answer is "A Ferrari" (or your impractical car of choice and country of origin).
However ...
You want to go SERIOUSLY off road? A Land Rover 110 is your choice.
You are a soccer mum with 3 kids and need to haul them around plus the shopping and the family dog? A People carrier is just the ticket.
You drive long distances on business? You'll want a large comfortable car that can effortlessly eat up the miles.
Same with firearms. What are you going to do with it and how do you think that THAT particular one will help you do that? And what is your budget? And will it "fit" your hand/build etc.?
There is no right answer unless and until you have listened carefully and asked a lot of questions, then any "You have got to get a .364 Super DamnandBlaster Ultra Short Magnum that everyone is discussing in the gun magazines and internet forums because it is the best EVAH cartridge" is counter productive to say the least.
Any newbie potential gun owner should treat such recommendations the same way that a 60 year old billionaire should treat a stunningly attractive 19 year old impoverished girls statements - listen politely but with extreme scepticism, not to say a certain amount of cynicism...
Phil B
You cannot underestimate the effect video games have on the firearm education and miseducation of the youth. To a smaller extent, also movies but many college and high school kids would rather play games than watch movies. They are curious about the guns they use in the games. No generation is immune. Dirty Harry is still responsible for many a 44 magnum purchase.
ReplyDeleteIf you live in the country you should have a .22 rifle and probably a 12 gauge pump. If you live in the big city you should have a pistol. Get whatever folks use for deer in your area if you think you're going hunting. That'll be the 12 gauge in a lot of places.
ReplyDeleteIt almost doesn't matter which .22 rifle, etc, you get, they're all pretty good nowadays.
Whatever you get, go out to the gravel pit or the range and learn to hit things with it.
Those groupings look pretty good to me. Folks may spread out a bit, depending on circumstances and budget, but the core of the firearm collection will be one of those categories.
ReplyDeleteI would take issue with your characterization of the humble shotgun. It does two things very well. It takes birds at short to medium range, and it deals with trouble when that trouble is up close and personal.
"...it deals with trouble when that trouble is up close and personal..." So does a 12", Amish hammer. I usually tie a rope lanyard so it doesn't slip out of my grasp. No cop or judge EVER looked twice at a wrench behind the seat of a pickup and saw a weapon.
DeleteI have a lever action, a pump shotgun, a single six, a security six, an AK, an AR, various .22 rifles, an MP5, an AR pistol, a Luger, a couple non-Glock semi-9's.
ReplyDeleteSomeday I'll make up my mind what group I fit in.
I bet you cried when that stupid canoe flipped over!
DeleteThey were all bagged :)
DeleteAnd then there's the guy with three roll aways full of tools who can't change his own oil....or the guy with three safes full of firearms who can't hit the ground with his hat....
ReplyDeleteI heard a financial advisor call those things "fantasy anchors". It is much easier to buy another piece of iron (or sewing machine or bottle of essential oils or fishing rods...) than to actually build the skills. As long as you keep buying the equipment and don't use them, you continue to harbor the fantasy that you "will rise to the occasion".
DeleteI'm with Cindy. Why would I need more than 1 credit card? Perhaps a tutorial on credit cards as tools for me and "Cindy"?
ReplyDeletesam
@anonymous 5:40AM Aint many problems a man can't fix with a few thousand dollars and a .30-06
ReplyDelete...and a suppressor and a nephew with a back-hoe.
DeleteWhen approached with the question from a prospective gun buyer, "What gun should I buy for self defense?", my initial statement is always the same.
ReplyDelete" Owning a firearm doesn't make you armed anymore than owning a guitar make you a muscian." After they think about that for a minute, we can start the conversation about how to become 'armed'.
To a beginner ,I guess I would say find something versatile that you can afford first ,and learn how to use it, then as finances allow you can get more specialized gear .I started out with a 12 Ga. Why ? It was able to be used in almost any hunting situation that an 18 year old would find here in Wisconsin . As time went by and finances improved I got better hardware . I was talking with a Nephew and he mentioned he was thinking about a pistol. He said something like Why would anyone have a revolver? I explained some of the good points about having a wheel gun , no magazine to loose , simple operation ,etc. and then I half jokingly told him , With a semi auto you are flinging empty brass everywhere leaving behind potential evidence with a revolver the brass stays with you. he said Good point thats why we have these chats lol
ReplyDeleteRevolvers are still relevant and effective.
DeleteI generally try to find out whether the prospective gun buyer is primarily interested in shooting as a sport, shooting for meat, or shooting as a martial art, for protection of self and family. Often, these days, the primary interest of newbies is in shooting to protect one's family, but in any case, this drives the discussion toward which arms are better suited for their primary interest.
ReplyDeleteIn that regard, one category of arms I think you'd want to add are those designed and intended for close to midrange self defence use- i.e. self-loading rifles such as the AR-15s and Kalashnikov variants, pistol caliber carbines, and others.
As regards the shotgun, there are certain applications for which the pump riot shotgun is better suited than any other arm- one being immediate area clearance. A 12 gage shotgun loaded with 8 rounds of #1 buckshot, without a trigger interruptor, can deliver 192 .30 caliber pellets within 3 or 4 seconds, as fast as the operator can hold the trigger and shuck the slide. Equipped with a spreader, such a weapon delivers a fan shaped pattern about 3' wide at 15 yards that will cover a significant arc of fire. This is significantly greater volume of fire in a shorter time than a 9 mm subgun can deliver. Even without the spreader, the shotty is a devastating weapon, especially in suburban and urban encounters.
Loaded with flechette rounds it shreds soft armor, and loaded with tungsten shot it is lethal far past the range of lead buckshot. It is also a decisive stopper on unarmored opponents at distances out to perhaps 100 yards when loaded with proper slugs, moreso that most readily man-portable arms. Lastly, it is relatively inexpensive.
It is true that it has shortcomings, being slow to reload in most variants, although there are shotgun speedloaders available, and it loses accuracy and power past 100 yards. One must know the limitations of one's weapons as well as one's abilities, but these limitations do not make the shotgun second rate. The unpracticed user may not have the requisite skill, but that ought not reflect on the weapon. The shotgun has it's place, sir.
All points well made. Tweel and Ruggles as well.
DeleteThank-you for graciously pointing out the errors of my ways. There are times and places for attempts at humor.
Lucky for me you guys are a congenial bunch of folks.
@ERJ: O gracious host, as is always the case with your posts, this article is thought provoking, well intentioned, and worth consideration. My minor quibble about the usefulness of certain types of arms does not change that.
DeleteI will, further, readily admit that for most scenarios in which I might find myself in need of long arms, especially in rural environs such as those you (and I) frequent, the riot gun would not be my first choice, and I prefer to avoid situations where it is most likely to be useful. When the Bad Guys are within shotgun range, so am I.
On another note, I tend to take this subject probably more seriously than most, and I apologize for missing your joke regarding the "Amish Equalizer".
With warm regards to you sir, and to all who seek the Light,
Historian
When I worked part time at a gun store I would always ask, "What do want to do with it?" The answer usually led to one or two more questions. That narrowed down the selections quite a bit.
ReplyDeleteAbout 20% knew what they wanted when the walked in. If she wanted something from Wilson Combat, just show it to her. If he was focused on a Taurus Judge, don't waste your time showing them anything else.
In the end, their money, their choice.
Then there are those like me who like all kinds of different guns for all kinds of different purposes. This leads to large numbers of firearms in one's collection.
ReplyDeleteAt least one of every caliber and style.
DeleteI have an accumulation, not a collection.
DeleteAs the years have passed my collection has diminished, now down to 6 projectile tossers. The 2 pellet rifles get the most used by myself and as intro to new or non shooters. A 10 yard range in the shop is great for winter and grandkids.
ReplyDeleteThe others are each fitted towards the tasks they are best intended towards.
The main point both you ERJ, and many others make is to learn and use what you have in the way of tools.
I concur with your essay completely and as primarily being on the hunter side of firearms and secondary as self-defense I am somewhat knowledgeable and would ask the same questions as you highlight. I really enjoy your page Joe and have read, I believe, all of your stories. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and family stories with us.
ReplyDeleteI think you're pretty much on point with that. Only suggestion is break out hunting shottie vs. home defense shottie.
ReplyDeleteI am a healthy 80 year old woman. We live in the wild country of MT. Last summer there was a grizzly bear in the field next to our house. My hands are weak. I have practiced at a gun range with a
ReplyDeleteGlock 19 and with a Ruger 101. I can manage both. Do you have any practical suggestions?
Of the two you mentioned, the Glock 19 gets the nod.
Deletehttps://www.wideopenspaces.com/alaska-man-kills-charging-brown-bear-with-a-9mm-pistol/
Phil, the guide in the story, has huge amounts of experience with both inland grizzly and Alaskan Brown Bear and he was carrying a 9mm.
I think you will be able to shoot more shots, faster with the 9mm. That is important because the first shot or two will be rattled and then you will settle into the groove.
If you travel in pairs, there is nothing wrong with both of you carrying handguns and one of you carrying a rifle. In 1900, the 30-30 was considered potent big-bear medicine and loaded with modern 170 grain bullets each hit will be the equivalent of three .357 hits out of a revolver. Light weight, quick-handling and easier to shoot more accurately than a handgun it has a lot going for it.