Monday, July 3, 2023

Glaciers at 27N?

I have been watching videos taken in East Nepal at approximately 27 degrees North and 5000 feet of elevation.

Knowing a little bit more than the typical layman about soil formation and soil profiles, I am immensely baffled by the deep soils on the steep slopes. I am also baffled by the heterogeneous nature of the soil with regard to particle size...from clay to heads-sized rock.

Just eyeballing it, 12' wide paddies and 18" of rise is a 15 degree slope.

There were multiple sequences of village people hacking out rice paddies on slopes of 10' of rise in 100' of horizontal or more.

The typical theories of soil formation are that soil is created out of native rock via thermal-cycle cracking or by erosion/abrasion. Thermal-cycle cracking occurs where freeze-thaw cycles occur or where there is significant day-night temperature differences, typically in areas with low cloud-cover and on slopes facing the equator. The depth of soils created by thermal-cycling are self-limiting as the cycles attenuate with depth.

An atypical source of soil is volcanic ash.

The native rock is angular and blocky

Much gravel in that soil

Soil that has been modified by water-based erosion is often highly stratified by particle size. Also, that soil tends to end up in the bottoms of valleys and not stay thickly trowelled onto the sides of the slopes.

Glaciated soils

Glaciers are bulldozers and mixers while water is OCD and sorts.

Valleys formed by glaciers tend to be "U" shaped while valleys formed by water tend to be "V" shaped.

There is more than a little bit of evidence (soil profile and depth) that 27N at 5000 feet of elevation was probably covered by glaciers at one time. In fact, thick soil is the result of retreating glaciers edging forward in the winter and retreating in the summer with each cycle leaving a ripple of thick soil.

That is mind-boggling. 27 degrees north is about the same latitude as Tampa, Florida. 5000 feet of elevation is not trivial. That might make a 20 degree F difference vs. Tampa. But still, glaciers!

One must surmise that those glaciers retreated long before humans were the dominant species on the planet...long before.

I wonder if any of my readers are geologists who would be willing to point out the errors in my thinking. 

---Added after sleeping on it: It occurred to me that the depth of the soil could be due to land-slides. The soil forms at higher elevations via normal weathering processes. An exceptionally dry year or series of dry years might allow fires to burn off the vegetation. Roots decay in thee soil and cannot hold it together. Rains come. The entire horizon of soil slides down the slope, mixing as it goes.

Nepal is also very active from the standpoint of earthquakes. You have to wonder how stable the saturated soil beneath the paddies will be with minimal roots stitching it together.---

10 comments:

  1. There are a Coupla YouTube geologists. Interesting to watch. The guy who has the Cowboy hat seems like a great teacher. I enjoyed your post.

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    1. An ever curious intellect combined with the precision of an engineer results in ever blossoming applications of mindfulness. That's our President ERJ.

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    2. OOOOO! Garden Party support for ERJ.

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  2. Or, each terrace acts as a riffle in the natural gravity flow of mineralized water. Water carries sediment too.
    Add animal dung and vegetation. Voilá

    Here it seems reasonable to question; which came first, the man-made terracing or the productive soil? Yet simply collecting a sample of the water running off an unterraced hillside and let it settle for a few days would answer the question.

    Too, the struggle for life at 27N would allow for wind or avian borne seedlings to thrive on those hillsides before terracing came to be. Again, the terracing act as riffles or rills to impede the flow, allowing sediments to drop out.

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  3. Geology wise Long Island, N.Y is the product of two glaciations! The south shore is heavy on sandy, fairly level and the dark fertile areas are partly because of the natives planting the three sisters (corn, beans and squash) with a manhaden fish under each hill! The north shore, which formed more recently is hillier with more gravel and stone.

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    1. The skyscrapers of Manhattan rest on black schist. Otherwise, they'd wobble and sink.

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    2. Manhattan is not part of Long Island!! The parts of NYC that are on the Long island do not have high rise buildings.

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  4. When ideas don't line up with paradigms, I try turning everything on its head.
    Which came first, the soil or the farmers? How old are those mountains? Could the fertile soil have been depositied at a lower elevation, below sea level even, than tectonics moved it where it is today? Geological time doesn't mesh well with ours.
    I like Anon@10:58 trickle down theory, too. Partly because thats what I'm seeing in the garden plot I am working in the pasture that is slightly sloped... all the manure I add at the top ends up at the bottom for some reason?

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    1. I'm the anon from 10:58.

      One of my earliest gardens was on a 30* slope. I placed a low wall of rocks along the contour every five feet or so. Onions and tomatoes at the top, carrots, rutabagas, zucchini, garlic, and gourds in the middle, corn at the very bottom. I watered only at the top save for the toms which were on a different watering schedule. All water eventually made it to the corn (and sunflowers for the birds) which grew very tall and healthy.

      My point is that garden was very successful over several years in three seasons and taught me much about terracing. Not everything mind you, but a good familiarity.

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