Last week I put out a post about East Indian Castes. It generated a fair amount of comments.
I decided to let the topic incubate (fester?) for a bit before revisiting it.
The question I want to throw on the table like a dead-mackerel is: Is there anything we can learn from the (East) Indian Caste system that can be applied in a positive way to address current issues?
The first effort was doomed from the start. The word "caste" is tainted. It pushes buttons. It is a dog-whistle.
OK, I took my whipping on the first effort. Lemme give you a fer-instance.
It is a widely held belief (if not always admitted to) that the bottom 10% of our population in terms of IQ have no place in our modern economy.
Just spit-balling here, but what if a modern incarnation of the "caste" system formalized the role of the lowest IQ portion of our population as recyclers, scavengers and street-sweepers. If it hits the ground, it is theirs.
In exchange for this carve-out, the bottom 10% will receive scrap prices that will ensure that they get just enough money to raise 2 children per couple. No more. No less.
If a member of the recycling class were to exceed their charter and were to remove a catalytic converter from a functional vehicle, then the scrap-prices will be adjusted downward and the reason will be shared with the recyclers. Presumably, they will be motivated to self-police.
The prices paid to the scavengers would be added to the originating transaction.
Essentially, this is Pigou's solution, reconnecting externalized costs to the originating transaction. It would also give the bottom 10% a purpose in life and an over-arching structure to their lives. Solving either one of these convoluted problems would be a worthy accomplishment.
Honor compels me to credit Alma Boykin (a very fine writer) with this solution as detailed in her "Empire" series of books. My only contribution is to point out that it does not have to remain fiction or remain a quaint artifact of (East) Indian culture.
What, exactly, would that do that the “free market” and “charity” doesn’t offer now? (assuming such was ever really allowed to exist, or hadn’t been corrupted and meddled with by those who personally and ideologically profit from it ‘not’ working) [asking to be clear]
ReplyDeleteProblem. Rigidly formulating and enforcing such a “caste” system ensures what? That those ‘defined’ (by who, some faceless bureaucrat who is paid on how many they identify? Recent experiences show that doesn’t work out too well, no?) might be capable, and competent at more than they are ‘allowed’ to do, but will be restricted/banned from even attempting to (and what of those that aren’t even capable of that minimal work?).
Collectivism (otherwise known by the softer/lying terms socialism/communism/progressivism/etc.), judging us all as interchangeable widgets (in treating people as things) is the root of all evil.
America, and to a slightly lesser extent the rest of the western world (or at least the Anglosphere parts of it) is built on the basic assumption of freedom, freedom to be what you are capable, competent and (crucially) willing to work for … without restrictions. (societies only succeed when those rigid - caste, or semi-rigid/assumed – class, structures are abolished, or at least mostly ignored ... not expanded).
The real problem is that all these “system's” (always couched in terms of solving some, often non-existent or created by the very system touted, problem in a ‘caring’ manner but in reality scams to profit, or give power to some clique) are imposed “safety-nets”. Freedom, at its root, is … the right to fail (something which is now, apparently in the modern ‘feminised’ world, simply unacceptable).
We are all individuals, and without the (well intentioned, or corrupt) meddling most will find an individual solution and niche. (talent, skills let alone simple work ethic is ‘not’ defined by intellectual ability – there are, I’d suggest as many, high/higher IQ individuals who lack the ability to successfully hold-down a job).
Perhaps the real question is … why do people belonging to such a “10%” struggle to find useful, and self-supporting work? Answer, the very people who ‘will’ be in charge of imposing such a caste system, have imposed (claimed well-meaning but very profitable for some) “non-racist/sexist/ableist/judgemental” quotas (so the patently incapable are placed in jobs they cannot do, so fail – amazingly/coincidentally requiring everyone else pay for them to do nothing), and wage requirements (so no-one can afford to hire a minimally competent employee). The. Very. Same. People. (So let’s double-down, impose even stricter regulation and restrictions, give them even more power and profit, that sounds like … not a very good idea)
Government, imposed from some ivory-tower, systems aren’t the ‘solution’, they ‘are’ the problem.
Current "solutions" are Dane-geld offered to appease the bottom 10%. It creates a growing underclass of entitled, resentful "takers" with no skills and no sense that they must be productive in some way.
DeleteI'm not sure I agree. If you look at any of the supposed "benefit the poor and needy" (or just our current favoured demographic) policies they were 'all' put in place to first benefit upper/middle class ... women (that other groups then used the same arguments, and changes to the system, to milk the system themselves was predictable and resulted in what we see now).
DeleteDIE et al may be the current incarnation, but the destruction of meritocracy, wage increases, reduced hours and the whole 'safetyism' fetish, at root is based on ... letting women access things they are neither capable, competent or willing to work for. That others followed suit was, as I say, entirely predictable.
It's not "Danegeld" it's "alimony". (We can bemoan the underclass, or even certain races, lounging in welfare hammocks, but in comparison to the amount spent, let alone destruction wrought, to allow women the pretence of 'independence' it's ... a drop in the ocean in comparison).
But you're right, the entitled underclass exists, and we can't just 'let them fail' (as we should, and in the past would), because in today's feminised society that isn't acceptable.
>bottom 10% of our population in terms of IQ have no place
ReplyDeleteCitation requested. A quick duckduckgo shows lots of job possibilities. Some companies are using them for factory work.
I worked a beef packing plant line which took zero IQ, like most assembly line jobs. There are literally millions of potential jobs. I wonder how many are blocked because of litigation?
Your solution seems to be a complete capitulation to the concept of Big Government. Let the private sector handle it. Discussing tax exemptions and so forth, which probably would be a part of the solution, would fill volumes, but I think it could be done.
Another thing that bothers me: people seem to assume that low IQ people have low IQ kids.
We all have low IQ's until we get taught how to use our brains. Low IQ people (always excluding genetic causes) were taught to be so, and most will teach their kids the same. Give a ghetto kid motivation, you get Soule, Thomas, etc. Give them a loving home and you get black kids like we had in the 70s, i.e. basically normal American people. If you're old enough, you remember black nerds. Urkel didn't spring whole from the forehead of a hack, he was based on the kids we all knew back then.
Democrats don't like it when black people act white, but these Crazy Years won't last forever.
anon 4:11 good luck with that. As robotics take over the low IQ jobs like factory work and burger flipper those Robots NEED High IQ folks to be the fixers when Murphy strikes.
DeleteAlready Do Gooders have almost priced all minimum wage jobs into the hands of robots. COngrats (sarc) you GOT 50 dollars an hour minimum wage, they fired you and bought robots to serve you a 50 dollar Big Mack Combo.
You WON... A few more victories like that and...
When the Carbon Reduction folks do a Sri Lanka on agriculture to "Save Gaila" FOOD is going to be an expensive as in MOST of History expensive part of life.
In most of history the village idiot was a sad hulk doing whatever he could to live another day until he passed. That wasn't from lack of human kindness but lack of CALORIES to feed a mostly useless mouth.
Currently we CAN feed them and they breed very well.
That's going to change and not in a good way, unless you think of forced weight loss as a diet plan.
One citation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-Ur71ZnNVk
DeleteIntelligence is partially controlled by genetics. It puts a cap on the IQ and in-utero insults and lack of a stimulating environment (both cultural and more likely if your mother is low-IQ) reduces attained-IQ to something below potential-IQ.
You said your job required zero intelligence. Let me draw you a word picture. Consider a person with an IQ of 70 (about 2.2% of the population or 6.6 million in the US). Somebody gave them a motor-bike and commented that it worked but it had an electrical problem.
Our example with the IQ of 70 ripped all of the electrical wires off of the bike to get rid of the electrical problem. The bike did not work after that (SURPRISE!!!). Low IQ person enraged that "friend" had given him a worthless bike.
What jobs can somebody of that mentality perform? Scrapping, perhaps?
In the modern world they use a term called "equity" to denote the idea that your scrap picker should drive a Mercedes and dine on caviar.
ReplyDelete'Idiocracy' wasn't an instruction manual.
Enough resources to raise two children per woman and no more.
DeleteAs determined by the state? Really Joe?
DeleteCaste system requires a lot of enforcement physical violence, economic and social conditioning. Starting from less than zero in the chaos to "establish" something that took many decades of religion and violence to establish seems a fool's journey.
ReplyDeleteAfter things get spicy here, it's going to be closer I feel to the Norse Villages. People clanning up to produce basics and protecting same and those that don't fit in become outcasts aka outlaws.
After that salvage and trade. If we survive the 3rd world gangsters determined to become Lords of their realm.
I think once the rule of law at the federal and state level breaks down, you will see local 'enforcement'... I know here the Sheriff approves of the three-S treatment already. If his hands aren't tied by higher highers... My county will be clean and safe, you can bet on it. God help you if you're not a local. Clear out, or start digging.
DeleteSounds pretty clan Norse village to me anon. You're a trusted local and your word is your bond or you're a outlaw.
DeleteIt may be nit-picking, and may miss the point, but… The bottom 10% of the IQ curve are effectively retards, Joe. Roughly 13% of whites, and 40% of blacks are literally too stupid to hold a mundane job. They need help and supervision just to live. They will never be productive. It’s a heartless way to look at it, but essentially statistically correct.
ReplyDeleteLet us not mince words. India is a chithole. There is nothing ‘wrong’ with India…it’s just full of Indians. The cultures they set up for themselves produce grinding poverty for most, and opulence and splendour for the privileged few. “Caste System” is not a dog whistle to me; it’s a system of govt I want nothing to do with, used by stupid, dirty people I want nothing to do with.
In point of fact India is now slowly moving away from the caste system, and closer to a govt like the classical merit based Christian capitalist models. They’re doing that because it works.
The problem we have now is not procedural. We have republics based on rule of law. There are no shortcuts. There is no different way to slice the pie, no artificial means of equalizing people through gobbledegook diversity prattle, affirmative action, or magical tolerance enforcement that will make things great again. North America has “people problems”.
For a nation to be great and prosperous, everyone has to work. Everyone has has to be paid exactly what they’re worth. Everyone must sacrifice, and everyone has to be on the same team. That is not possible in a multicultural society and they inevitably end up looking like countries such as Brazil. Or worse.
Too stupid to pick up cans from beside the road?
Deletehttps://youtu.be:1XCyNwZArkE
DeleteGuess I should have included the title of that vid: "Jordan Peterson - The HORRIFYING TRUTH about IQ no one WANTS to ADMIT"
DeleteYes: too stupid to pick up cans from beside the road... according to the impirical discoveries of the US military... the hard way.
The problem I have is based on IQ. That is one factor in success. I have known brilliant people who due to a lack of drive barely stayed above poverty, or due to a desire for different lifestyle: hermit in the woods, carpetbagger in a major city(giving people the chance to do a good and help out a bro). I even met someone who was; not sure the right term to use mentally lacking big time. At 20 when I met them their plan was to retire by 35. Working 3 paper routes and working a retail job. Ambition shined and 20 years later she retired a little late. How do you decide what caste someone belongs to? More to say but I saw a bunch of washers and dryers at the bottom of ditch last week and at 15$ each at the scrap yard I'm shooting fot a 200$ day.
ReplyDeleteIronic,I had an old range to take to the county recycle center. An old house just before the center had signs out that he took old appliances. Wheeled in there and gave the old man the range,he was grateful.He had a long dual axle trailer with them stacked 3 high by 3 across. Recently I loaded an old washer and dryer as a favor and took it to him. Again he was thankful to get them.I'm wondering how long before the county shuts him down.
DeleteAs a very young lad, I had the opportunity to visit a larger family farm (hunting trip, running with my dad's drinking buddies). At the close of the days festivities, I was taken to the rear of a large traditional looking barn, where there was an apartment, a home if you will, for a congenial, grizzled sort, that we'll call Fred. As I remember (1960 's!), there was shelter, food, warmth and an atmosphere that said 'this is MY place'.
ReplyDeleteI see this now as a modern variation of the doorpost/awl economic arrangement, Fred provided labor, the farm provided work and dignity. Our current laws would sqash this arrangement on multiple fronts, likely with extreme prejudice.
An idea that may find a Renaissance,
A Little East of Paris
You assume that the segment would be self policing.
ReplyDeleteA, it won't because they don't care about the rest.
B. Often, cause and effect are not co-related in their minds.
One major problem with the caste system is, once born into a caste you will always remain into that caste. No upward economic or social movement. I might be happy as a Delta, but others may not be.
ReplyDeleteIf you are saying work for pay, that is dead politicly. Idiots votes count the same as geniuses and there are more of them.