Peterforester commented on a recent post:
I actually read an article a while back about a guy who was buying up derelict houses in Detroit. The city was selling them for $1.00 apiece. He bought up several blocks of them. The he had them torn down. Then he returned the land to agricultural use.
Can it work?
Four minute video. To live in this planned community, you must commit to growing food on 1/2 of your "lot".
From the same channel. About five minutes long.
Can it work? Maybe. Historically, gardening in medium-to-low density urban areas was the norm. It was promoted as recently as WWII, particularly in Europe. It is still common in parts of China and Latin America.
Stumbling blocks
Theft and vandalism
The ethic of private property is not respected in many places. Gardens are difficult and expensive to armor against those threats. If/when people get hungry, they will steal the food or destroy it out of anger and spite. Theft and vandalism totally guts the incentive to cultivate a garden.
The places that are most likely to be food-deserts are also likely to have the poorest regard for the sanctity of private property.
Property ownership
Much of the housing in food-deserts is rental. Length of tenure is uncertain. There is little incentive to make property improvements (fences, soil amendments). There are likely to be clauses in leases that prohibit "eyesores" like compost piles.
Poor soil
Most cities started on fertile sites with geographic advantages like harbors or navigable rivers. Decades of excavation and earth-moving destroyed the topsoil. Much of what is left is polluted with heavy metals and long-lasting contaminates.
In older parts of cities, the drainage is compromised since the oldest, most-in-need of repair parts are where the urban expansion drains through. Detroit, specifically, was built on a flat, clay-pan that used to be the bottom of a prehistoric lake. "Flat" and "clay" do not drain well.
Some land was created by filling in tidal-flats. The fill rubble, foundry sand and other waste.
People choosing to use your garden as a toilet or to shoot-up drugs turns your garden into a biohazard.
The places that are most likely to be food-deserts are likely to have the worst soil for growing food.
Shade
Small lots means that a neighbor's tree or the apartment block next door will shade your garden. And there is nothing you can legally do about it.
Unrealistic expectations
Because the urban dweller who shops at Kroger sees fresh plums and cherries and strawberries in the produce department year-round, they expect their two trees and the bale of straw with five strawberries on it to do the same. They have a hard time comprehending that a tree full of sweet cherries has ripe cherries for about a week and if you want cherries for longer than that, you need to refrigerate the fifty pounds you might harvest.
They want to grow crops that have specialized requirements. They expect the produce to be cosmetically perfect. They cannot comprehend that the perfect carrot they buy in a bag was grown in deep, "muck" soils that only occur in very localized areas. Basically, muck is a drained peat bog.
Labor requirements
It is difficult for people who lived an urban existence their entire lives to comprehend the labor requirements involved in gardening on a large scale.
The needs of the plants determines what you do, not your To Do list.
Your hands will get dirty.
You will be bending over or on your knees. You are likely to get blisters on your hands. Slivers are a real possibility. Weeds and bugs can and will sting you.
Weeds. Watering. Harvesting. Storing dirty food somewhere. Cleaning. All that has to happen before you can start preparing a meal from-scratch, which in itself is seen as an accomplishment on-par with climbing Mount Everest by a portion of the population.
Restrictive rules
Unfortunately, "consensus" usually devolves to capitulation to the most unreasonable person in an effort to avoid conflict.
Even though pesticides and fertilizers are used liberally on lawns and public spaces everywhere, urban Karens go ballistic if they see anybody using "chemicals" near a vegetable garden. They insist that everybody be "organic".
They also throw a hissy-fit when you live-trap raccoons, possum, squirrels and other vermin and relocate them (after dispatching them in a private place).
They complain about bees.
They blame marigolds and zinnias for their hay-fever.
They complain about fences and sheds and other structures.
They complain about the untidy appearance of raspberry bushes and okra.
Pumpkins
For some reason, every new gardener wants to grow a crop of (ornamental) pumpkins. They are the bane of people managing community gardens.
The gardener thinks they throw some seeds into the ground in June and come back the week before October and that there will be 20 pumpkins to pick.
It NEVER works out that way. Their allotment becomes a weed-choked jungle. The weeds go to seed and make all of the surrounding allotments much more difficult to care for.
If the vines survive, they sprawl out into other allotments and cause strife. Attempts to reach the absent gardener are never answered. The other gardeners curse the pumpkin-farmer and keep chopping back the vines.
About August 15, after the vines set a crop of baby pumpkins, the vines are killed by squash borers. The absent pumpkin-farmer visits and accuses the other gardeners of killing his vines and he threatens legal action.
Summary
It is NOT impossible to grow food in cities but there are many road-blocks.
One of the prime-enablers would be to carve out something like an Enterprise Zone or the special treatment of railways* but for agriculture. I think it needs to include language that operations inside the zone be results-oriented rather than getting all tangled up in "process".
*Railroads are allowed to have their own police force just like Indian Reservations. Trespassing laws are actually were enforced with great vigor even by local enforcement.
Neighborhood cats made gardening difficult in our urban property. The soft soil was perfect for doing their 'bidness' so secured screening was need to keep them out.
ReplyDeleteWe grow some prickly pear cactus in backyard for seasonal nopalitos. They require zero maintenance but DEMAND occasional cutting back. Very persistant growing and hard to eradicate if you decide you no longer want them on your property.
Culture drives this bus. Where private property IS RESPECTED and live and let live civility is the norm then urban gardens and even small farms do well. When the USSR fell the backyard gardens did much to keep the people of Russia fed.
ReplyDeleteWas true in Europe until importation of folks that don't share that viewpoint. Poland and Russia are two examples of folks having successful backyard urban gardening and such because they don't allow "refugees" from largely Islamic nations.
For much the same reasons public transportation prior to importation of rapefugees was reasonably safe in Europe.
Look to Poland for a nation that maintains its boarders, allows no refugees and their level of civility and distinct lack of rape for examples.
Sadly, we tolerate behaviors and still import folks that don't share our values in private property and sanctity of women and children. Some even get elected to Congress. (looking at the Squad here).
sanctity
noun
uk /ˈsæŋk.tə.ti/ us /ˈsæŋk.tə.t̬i/
the sanctity of human life, marriage, etc.
the quality of being very important and deserving respect:
exactly....like most things, urban gardening only works when you keep certain cultures out of the area.
DeleteI like how our host danced around saying who the problems were, except for naming Karens (liberal white women)....but the other problem people he danced around naming.
It's HIS Blog "B". That he generally allows comments like mine and yours says a lot of good things about his nature.
DeleteIf you don't like his style, why are you here? Not like you paid for admission or are lacking other channels to virtue signal your viewpoints.
Why do I say virtue signal? Because you're apparently not doing anything about the "other problem people" are you?
He without sin cast the first rock, some rabbi once said.
According to reports from the 1930s and 1940s, mainland China was a cesspit and even things that were nailed down were stolen.
DeleteCentral America also has a flexible understanding of "private property'.
But when the warlord or Jefe or strongman or Mao says "This is law!" and follows up with instant justice for those who cross the line, "culture" turns on a dime.
Even in very-white Eaton Rapids, if you leave your vehicle parked beside the road overnight you are likely to find the side windows smashed in the morning. And it isn't "the usual suspects" who did it.
The saying "we are nine missed meals away from anarchy" is woefully optimistic. We are much closer to anarchy than that.
When it's Just US instead of Justice there is chaos.
DeleteWhere there is no real law there is chaos.
In the military I was taught NEVER give an order your not going to enforce.
You lose respect and authority.
The one and only time I stole a penny candy my father's punishment was so effective that I never did that again. Being forced to apologize and sweep the store was far more effective than the whipping I had.
White trash or otherwise needs firm prompt and embarrassing restore the damage correction.
In Detroit, It would most likely be the "Usual Suspects".
DeleteMichael: Not trying to get into an argument here in Joe's comments, but what, exactly, would you have me do that would make you think I am doing more that "Virtue Signaling" (Trust me, there is little, if any, virtue in me, ask Joe, He's met me) How would you suggest I do something to fix the issue of "The other problem people"? Please, be specific.
Get the worthless Judges fired. Lack of law is at the core of the current incivilities. Repeat offenders just do it again.
DeleteHere in my AO we got one bad judge fired (heard Shes working in Boston now) a librarian that kept teaching alternative (I'm being PC here) lifestyles after meeting after meeting the school board agreed to remove those books.
Local, politics and protecting your kids is local.
Since that isn't going to happen it's fall of Empire time.
https://coyoteprimeblog2.blogspot.com/2025/09/when-empires-die.html
B said How would you suggest I do something to fix the issue of "The other problem people"? Please, be specific.
DeleteI spent the morning removing and burning Oriental Bitterroot from my grapevines. A nasty invasive DESTRUCTIVE useless plant. Overgrows and strangles even old oaks and such.
You cannot even compost it for useful mulch for later. Not unless you enjoy rooting more out later.
Had to cut it away from the still marginally salvageable grapevines and avoid destroying the infrastructure of the grape trellis and irrigation system.
Had to get down on my old knees and dig-pull out its orange roots from between the roots of my grapes and other co-existing plants there.
Wasn't going to live and let live with it, as it was a clear and ongoing danger to my little homestead and as bird shit sends it far and wide OTHER Neighbors crops and such.
Did I get it all, NO. Invasive plants require constant vigilance and WORK to remove and destroy them. Come spring I'll be back out there tools at the ready to seek and wipe it out again.
There are lessons there for invasive problems. I could have pulled out an Agricultural Flamethrower and burned it all down, but I wanted to save the useful plants and infrastructure.
Thus, the hard on old knees work of clippers and shovels and then the Burn Pile.
And the willingness to knowingly have to do it again season after season.
Our Extension Ag agent used to say that Detroit was built on the best farmland in the state. I don't have any information to back up his claim, but I always thought it was interesting.
ReplyDeleteIt is very similar to the Lake Erie plains of Monroe county and the sugar beet fields of Saginaw and Bay counties.
DeleteCalifornia has been paving and building on top of some of the best farmland in the WORLD for DECADES. You can't fix stupid.
DeletePeople Suck, is the common denominator. I'd be more inclined to do something like that in association with some other organization in the community that already has presence and/or cachet. Say a community church or other charity group?
ReplyDeleteAnon - One church in Alabama actually did that sort of thing, encouraging a farmer's market for local farmers to offset the loss of local agriculture. Hughey Reynolds, The Land That Calls Me Home.
DeleteMy father had some farming vision - we had some small acreage in the city. He planted fruit trees planning for the future. Under darkness one night a neighbor came and picked all of our pears. My dad cut down all of our trees the next day.
ReplyDeleteCutting down the neighbor would have been more beneficial for everyone.
DeleteAt our Community Garden here in Mulvane we have a problem getting people to pull their weeds. One lady when confronted with it said that it was too much work to pull her weeds. I have seen tomatoes planted in the bindweed and then she wonders why she had no produce. By the way. If you develop a herbicide that only kills bindweed you will be an overnight millionaire.
ReplyDeleteThe obvious answer is a security deposit of $100 and if they don't keep up with their weeding, hire a kid at $20/hour to weed it. When the $100 is gone, mow the garden flat.
DeletePeople tend to be more responsive when they have some skin in the game.
Points to him for trying... Not sure he will succeed unless there is more 'enforcement'...
ReplyDeleteTwo major issues which discourage farming in Detroit are rats and lead chemical compound soil contamination.
ReplyDeleteTwo legged and four legged rats.
DeleteOddly enough, lead is the solution to both kinds of rats!
DeleteMy father grew up in Bismarck ND during the Depression. The family garden kept them alive and mostly fed. Lots of potatoes, squash, onions, turnips and radishes. No room for lettuce and such, they were going for maximum calories.
ReplyDeleteSince most of their garden was root vegetables, it was left alone. Carrying a shovel around at night would be seen and talked about. Dad said that it got vandalized once, but he saw the boy that did it, and that boy caught a whuppin' from his father.
Every year fewer and fewer people exist who knows how to grow food in meaningful amounts. Eventually the skill will be lost. Once that happens humans starves....but the run up to that point will be mighty spicy.
ReplyDeleteFunny where this went! I was merely illustrating how Detroit was coming full circle because of its declining population! It's pretty cool where this went though. The problems that you listed, ERJ; I know a guy who had an organic farm right in the middle of town. Being in California, there was a NEVER ENDING GAUNTLET of hoops and red tape for him to negotiate to start the farm. Hell; he couldn't even run his own farm stand on his own property! Then came the bums that Newsom and Moonbeam Brown dinner-belled into the state. They started camping out on the farmer's property. The sheriff said, "Nothing we can do. Our hands are tied by state law." The bums were stealing his crops. They were camping on his property. They were pissinga and shitting on his land, and the sheriff was no help. SEND IN THE BEES!!! He called his friend, a beekeeper, who brought over a few dozen hives, which were planted in strategic locations on the farm. The bums buzzed out. The crops got pollinated. The beekeeper got honey. ...Hell; maybe we need to try this in the California State House!
ReplyDeleteThe guy I mentioned in Detroit was an actual FARMER who was on-site pretty much 24/7. Yeah, communal gardens can have their issues, especially when they're not manned all the time.
I'm with Dan concerning "fewer and fewer people." Biden once said something like "What's hard about farming? You plant the seed, water it, and it grows." Biden showed his total arrogance and ignorance there. He's probably never even potted a tomato seed! Gardening is part science and part alchemy. You can read all the books on gardening you want. Nothing will take the place of doing it yourself. You can start with the best seed and the best soil. You can install state-of-the-art irrigation. You plant the seed and watch it grow. Then you go out ot the plot and find half of it gone because the ground squirrels found it! Yeah... It's like that... And ground squirrels and gophers are only TWO opponents you'll face! If you're planning on starting a "prepper garden," start NOW. You have A LOT to learn!!