Unruly behaviors are destroying the appeal of cruises in the Caribbean. Most of the intolerable behaviors occur while the cruise is underway and are perpetrated by economy-class passengers.
I don't know much about maritime law, but I bet most of the passengers would prethink their choices if they knew that they would be handed over to "local" law enforcement authorities rather than simply banned from the cruise-line or, at worst, face US charges.
My gut-feel is that most of the countries in the Caribbean would be more than happy to house the miscreants and to set a very high bail to be able to exit the jail. They would probably not even have a "do not flee" order in place.
If economy passengers insist on Third-World behaviors while on a cruise in non-US waters, I think they should enjoy non-US jail time.
"We're On Vacation - Lets Get Ready To Rumble !!"
ReplyDeleteMaybe they think they are auditioning for the Cast of 'Nobody 2' ?
Or 'Midnight Express'
DeleteLong before I started seeing chimp out videos, I made up my mind to avoid masses of humanity crammed together and held there with no escape. Druther go thru a root canal.
ReplyDeleteThey're like breeding grounds for infectious problems.
No thanks.
I note that these incidents, as far as I know, are all on what I call "cattle car party boats". These are the 6,000+ passenger boats aimed at (relatively) young people going to party spots.
ReplyDeleteMy parents do many cruises and they won't go on a ship with more than 1,500 passengers and they stay away from party ships. Of course, they are also over 80...
While the party boats claim great pricing, it isn't much different then the deals you can find on smaller ships if you search.
I've done cruises with them; it isn't my thing. To manicured, too much out of my control.
Jonathan
There are cruises offered along the Rhine and Danube. They sound attractive but I saw someone say that he might as well have been on a bus trip. That seems harsh: the bits of the Rhine I know are an impressive sight. Maybe mile after mile of it palls.
ReplyDeleteThere are cruises to the Norwegian fjords (we used to spell it "fiords" didn't we?): I've seen the NZ fjords which will presumably do in their place. Mighty impressive, I must say.
Having been on both a Rhine and a Danube cruise in the last 18 months, I can confirm that the scenery can be spectacular, and not viewable from any other vantage point. River cruise boats are small, around 150 passengers. and yes, they are pricier than the Carnival cattle boats. On each of our two cruises, I doubt there was more than 2 couples under age 50. Good food, attentive staff, easy to meet some nice fellow cruisers, good all-round experiences, hence more are on our schedule.
DeleteI presume the "bus trip" comment is in reference to the choice of excursions selected. You can skip any/all of those and do your own exploration, or opt for the offered activities. These are usually rated gentle/normal/active based on your physical, and depend much on the area you are in. On the Danube cruise, we had a very long bus ride to get to Nuremberg for a brief look-see, while on the Rhine I had a great 20 mile bike ride into the countryside. Your mileage will vary.
How are they getting on in the first place, Joe? Are cruises cheap now? When I was a kid, cruise ships were the domain of well to do oldsters and affluent upper class types. That seemed to filter out the riff raff and ghetto trash. I would think that blacks that climb the social ladder into the higher classes that can afford such trips…get that kind of behaviour beaten out of them on the way up…? If that makes sense?
ReplyDeleteOff-season pricing.
DeleteThe company still has to make payments on the equipment (including the ship). It makes sense to run them as long as the pricing and number of passengers covers the variable cost plus a little more.
When there was less supply, they could fill those berths with insurance agents and car salesmen who were rewarded for exceeding their quotas and doctors, dentists, Mary Kay and Avon sales people who hit certain sales numbers. They thought they were getting a royal treat when it was not very expensive when purchased in blocks.
Supply of berths increased. The number of passengers who were polite and felt like they had worked to earn the privilege did not keep up.
Now all you need is a pulse and $300 left until you hit the limit on your credit card.
Carnival Cruise Lines has quite the rep for those kinds of cruises, which is why I avoid that company like the plague. It's cheap, lots of booze, and little self-control on the part of the guests - not my idea of fun.
ReplyDeleteActually, many cruise lines DO kick people off their ships if they are fighting, doing drugs or destroying property. If the ship is at or approaching an island/country other than the US , they may be turned over to local police. At best they are tossed off with their luggage and have to find their own way home. ( ie book a plane at full rates-since it's not a 14 day advanced purchase. They Better have their passports with them too or that's another problem on top of everything else.) Most ships have a brig and for lesser offenses may confine people to the brig or their cabins. I imagine many people are not aware they can be removed from the ship. Of course everyone on dry land knows that fighting, destroying property etc is against the law and some choose to do that anyway so...maybe the ones causing trouble onboard ship don't care. My wife and I like to cruise. I can't remember seeing any fights. I think it is like airplane crashes....they make headlines because the DON'T happen very often compared to pretty much anyplace you may live.
ReplyDeleteOne issue with self policing groups is that we don't know what the crime rate is.
DeleteBoth cruise lines and Disney have been accused of hiding crime and discouraging reporting of it to keep their reputations.
While it may not be common, we don't know whether that is actually the case.
Jonathan
Ironic that you criticize "third-world" behaviors while regularly advocating for "third-world" punishment.
ReplyDeleteI don't see the irony.
DeleteI know.
DeleteAct like a third world hellion, get third world treatment. It's really a simple proposition...don't start no trouble, there won't be no trouble.
DeleteEl Gato Malo described such behavior in economic terms in the post Fertilizing the Moron Farm, on substack. When the cost/price of (something) is reduced, all other things being equal, the the demand will increase. That uncivilized, unruly (ha, teenaged) behavior is out of control because the cruise ship industry has not raised the price of said misbehavior.
ReplyDeletePretty sure that the cruise ships could implement your idea to raise the cost of misbehavior and make their cruises essentially violence free.
Good work, Joe!
Milton
No need to watch the video or read the story to know it was "the usual suspects".
ReplyDeleteCare to be more specific?
DeleteAnd just which specific subspecies are willing to go to blows over "chicken nuggets"....as if you didn't know.
DeleteGary,
DeletebLACK people
Reference: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15018773/mass-brawl-carnival-cruise-ship-chicken-tenders.html
DeleteGary, I expect the amount of things you have to pretend not to know each day is astounding. It must be a struggle.
ReplyDeleteYou'd think Gary lived under a rock or something.
DeleteFeel free to elaborate
DeleteYet 'another' reason to not take a cruise... I've had my share of them.
ReplyDeleteI’m sorry, but whenever I hear that name I immediately think of SpongeBob SquarePants’ pet.
ReplyDeleteWhy do we all dance around the subject? Why the euphamism?
ReplyDeleteDo we not have freedom of speech in this country? So why is it we can't say what all of us know and are thinking? Good manners? Isn't that what the post is about? A group of people known to have poor manners in many instances, but they can't be named (shamed, and called out for their poor behavior in our society)? Why, because such behavior is acceptable to their society? Than if they are free to act, while we cannot speak, is it really our society anymore, or are we living in theirs? Can everyone not see that the friction is resulting from 2 different cultures rubbing against each other?
I dunno, maybe, but fer Chris'sake don't say the name! We'll get banned for our freedom of speech!
Sad. The country is already gone.
You can name them. But you can't shame them. They are so lacking in civilized ethics as to be incapable of feeling shame. Many of them actively and openly celebrate such behavior. And yes. These days normal civilized people must mind their speech or suffer real consequences. Many an honest speaker has lost their job and suffered other attacks for speaking truth openly.
Delete