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Based on the volume of comments, the post on "The Hungry Times" struck a nerve.
From the comments:
Anon 7:55 PM wrote "...it appears having a large pond or small river nearby will be able to provide some extra food or attractant options for foragers."
Anon 11:10 PM responded "A 30’ gill or trammel net suitable for suckers, carp catfish etc might be a lifesaver."
...then...
Anon 10:16 PM independently stated "I wonder how the Indians did so well. Granted, they ...had fewer people per acre."
How did the Native Americans survive the winters?
Population density was a big part of it. Population estimates for pre-Columbus continental United States and Canada vary by a a factor of ten but anumber of four-million is commonly used.
The current population of that same area is almost one-hundred times greater.
As can be expected over such six-million square-miles, strategies differed.
The Native-American Mound Culture cities were almost all near rivers. The largest NAMC city is called Cahokia and it is very close to East Saint Louis, Illinois.
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In both locations...rivers and estuaries...clams/mussels/oysters were easy pickings.
The West-coast tribes had a cultural innovation called "Potlatch" which functioned as a form of welfare.
Individual clans gained status by throwing parties and giving gifts of preserved foods (nearly always dried salmon). Due to the vagary of the salmon runs on the hundreds of streams that drain into the Pacific any one family could be randomly left without enough food to make it until the next salmon run.
Potlatch allowed that family to survive at a cost of loss of status. However, that status could be repurchased by hosting several, very generous Potlatch parties in the future.
Native-Americans in California's Central Valley were blessed by thousands of square miles of oak-orchards. Acorns (and pine nuts) which could be harvested with brooms were easily dried and cached in simple structures and stayed edible for years.
White settlers had a very dim view of those Native-Americans because they assumed that they had not even progressed to the level of simple agriculture. That assessment may have been a bit harsh. Those Native-Americans did not engage in any kind of agriculture that the plow-field-annual-grains based Europeans recognized.
Random factoids
The mesh size is critical for gill-nets and varies by the target fish. The issue is muddied-up because some people specify by "stretched-mesh" size and others specify by distance between knots "square-mesh" size.
Depending on the primary species of sucker that you are targeting, a square-mesh size in the 1-1/2" to 2" range is probably about right.
Common carp are highly variable in size. The younger ones that are more desirable for food according to my Polish neighbor are best caught with a 4" square-mesh while the most mass is caught with a 5" square-mesh. As a side-note, if you are going for mass, then a trammel net is the best choice because a heavy load of fish can trash a simple gill-net.
Bonus Link1 Academic paper discussing net selection that targets common carp
Bonus Link2 Youtube video of a trammel net set catching carp. Long video.
Thanks for the follow-up post - its a good topic to discuss. Recognizing and knowing what and when to gather for maximum benefits is crucial to up your chances. Studying your areas natural foods is a wise decision. And training your taste buds and perfecting your recipes is great too.
ReplyDeleteIt isn't just food supply though - its fuel needed to keep warm and cook food. Enough people stuck in an area will deplete wood supply fairly quickly. When I hear persons talking of bugging out, I don't know if they factor that in as well. Most will gather the nearest fuel and slowly fan out until it is too far to bring back. Then you HAVE to pack up.
OR
Have an alternative plan for this eventuality.
Any catastrophic event that leads to the collapse of industry and agriculture and requiring people to "fend and forage" for themselves will within a year or two return the population to an amount roughly equal to the 4 million or so inhabitants that were living here half a millennia ago....
ReplyDeleteWe are wildly dependent on energy and its byproducts to support our population (Hat tip to John Wilder, who discusses this a lot). Disrupt that, and bad things happen.
ReplyDeleteI cannot recall the exact source, but head been reading about the Lakota that went to Canada, following the Wounded Knee massacre, somewhere around winter of 1880. It recounted the tale of a lone field mouse that got into a tipi underneath the buffalo hide floor. They found that field mouse and threw him in the pot, whole, to boil until rendered. Meat is meat when you are hungry enough and almost everything becomes food when starvation is at the door.
ReplyDeleteScratch 1880. Make it Winter 1890-91.
DeleteNative tribes suffered greatly in winter if they did not have a robust harvest in the fall. Starvation was an annual issue, crops could be destroyed by weather or enemies. Shawnee and Comanche both ate their dogs and horses in bad times according to books I have read. Demand for wildlife could eliminate prey very quickly in a local.
ReplyDeleteIf this happened to people with generational knowledge on living on the land, I doubt I would survive as a 70 year old.
That is part of the "problem". People nowadays source their food from the supermarket and have neither the knowledge of how to fish or hunt (except perhaps for recreation) and as for growing food ...
DeleteI believe in on the job training but unless you have studied and practiced the many skills needed after TEOTWAWKI beforehand, then you may not have the time to do so afterwards.
My take on it is that after the first few weeks, those on EBT and city dwellers will be dead either of starvation, waterborne diseases and violence from their neighbours who are equally unprepared. I'd expect upwards of a 90% cull of the existing population and those redneck good 'ol boys and deplorables will be the ones to survive since they have been practicing hunting, fishing and growing their own food since childhood.
There won't be much demand for DEI and HR personnel afterwards.
Phil B
Several groups are highly vulnerable to disruption including: all city dwellers, anyone requiring medication for hypertension, diabetes, heart disease etc and pretty much anyone else that thinks stealing your neighbors preps is a good strategy.
DeleteWith the probably slight chance we have for social eruption or other societal disruption I got my preps in order by viewing the $1500 I spent on several 30 gallon drums of food and extra supplies in the same light I view homeowners insurance. I will likely never need it but if I do it will be worth 100x what it cost me.
The easy route is to order 20 or 30 #10 cans of freeze dried food from the Mormon pantry closest to you…. And you’re done, it’ll last longer than any of us and comes securely packed.
Thanks for videos of the girl fishing, very interesting, she definitely has the skills to live on the river.
ReplyDeleteNets are very useful in open water. I noticed she spent a fair amount of time clearing the fish from the net as well as cleaning the net of debris.
ReplyDeleteFor less open waters but smaller boil them whole fish inverted cone traps work well. Sometimes called baitfish traps but then again, I hear folks eat sardines :-) cooked baitfish until bones are soft and part of the meal.
Most importantly water QUALITY. Fish and cattails and all that can tolerate levels of human waste and other hazardous chemicals leeching into the water that we should be eating.
Research your "fishing hole", look around it to see if the local septic systems and leech fields are working properly. Septic systems are DESIGNED for a certain number of adults using it, along with brief overload from holiday visitors. I'm pretty sure a lot of extra family and friends might want to help you survive BUT the limit of the septic system needs to be addressed.
I suggest pit outhouses well sited away from your water supplies, or composting toilets and lots of leaves-grasses-sawdust-chips.
Make sure a wrecked car isn't leeching oils and such into your potential food supply. Let alone some decaying bodies.
SAME thing to keep in mind about your water supply. Those micro-filtration systems and such are ruined pretty fast with petroleum products like that iridescent sheen from that old car over there.
Nasty thoughts but I've seen such in 3rd world countries and once real hunger and the anger-fighting about that occurs we can go 3rd world pretty fast.
During the Depression, some communities in the South began living along and in small rivers, canals and swamps. Floating houseboat life - sounds idyllic to some.
ReplyDelete