Amira's challenge was outside of Samson's expertise. His specialty was LONG distance, precision shooting, not bar-room brawl distance shooting. He needed to consult with some experts. He wasn't going to deliver something that didn't address the issues Amira had pointed out.
The next morning Samson walked to the eastern edge of the Cumberland Plateau and found a position on the cusp of the Tennessee River Valley where he could visually see the eastern suburbs of Chatt. He was a quarter mile east of the official boundary of Copperhead Cove.
He moved around a bit until he had three bars of signal on his cellphone and then started typing...
Launch App: Rypt_Cord Server
A spinning clock icon appeared on the display of his phone. Then...
....Encryption achieved.....
Login:Not_Marinept25MOA
PW:*********
Ring:SemperfiAtl
Subgroup:PrcnShttrs
Samson tapped on the icon for "Start new Thread" and then tapped out
Subject: Advice needed re weapons for indig personnel
Background: Twenty small-stature to very-small-stature potential combatants need weapons with following characteristics
- Accurate enough to hit paper-plate at 50 meters with minimum training
- Very low recoil and muzzleblast
- Detachable magazine
- Enough projectile mass to disrupt central nervous system from frontal center-of-mass hit at 50 meters
- Compact, lightweight (six pound max)
- Low cost platform and ammo. Many potential combatants, low funds.
Need recommendations.
Over.
Trip1805 wrote: Hello NotMarine
Have you considered M1 Carbine. Designed to replace M1911 .45 ACP handgun for use by cooks, truckdrivers and REMFs.
Sounds exactly like what you are looking for.
Over.
NotMarine wrote: Cost and availability?
Over
Trip1805 wrote: $1500 for used, not matching serial numbers. $2000 for new with +6 month waiting list.
Over
Not_Marine wrote: That is not going to work for me. I need 20 copies in less than a month.
Over
WndwLiqr wrote: Have you considered .22LR semi-auto like 10/22? Can be had for $400.
Over
Not_Marine wrote: Great weapon. Not sure it can punch through chest or beer-gut, hit spine and disrupt CSN. Also, twenty copies at $400 way above budget. Can you suggest something between M1 Carbine and 10/22?
Over
Time passed and much internal discussion within thread. The various plusses and minuses of several semi-auto platforms were discussed. Then...
DieTrd wrote: How about Pistol Cartridge Carbine? 9mm PCC approximately 3X .22LR mass and performance. Simple blow-back. Price about $400 per copy for cheapest option.
Over
Not_Marine wrote: Price still too high.
Looked at M1 Carbine. Magazines are junk. Need robust magazines.
Over
Even more time passed
Md_scntst wrote: If I remember correctly, you have access to 3D printing. Many designs for PCC available on the graynet. Some use Glock magazines. PM me for details.
Over
Please advise regarding projected cost.
Over
Looking at a bulk buy for CHMSL barrels, roughly a C-note per copy.
Over
PM sent.
Over
End Session:
The prototype showed up in six days and was tinker-toyed from many AR parts because they are abundant and ergonomically excellent. For example, the fire-control groups were scrounged from the builder's parts drawer. Triggers are one of the items most frequently upgraded from "stock" ARs and "stock" was plenty good-enough for Amira's specification. Ditto for the buffer-spring that powered the bolt which the builder had fabricated from laminated steel, similar to the core of a low-voltage transformer.
Samson was delighted with the additional AR parts. He saw them as inventory-on-the-hoof. They were fair-game to cannibalize should the high-end weapons need those parts.
The 6" 9mm Luger barrel was pressed into a 16-1/2" long tube to make it legally a long-arm. The receiver was 3-D printed and it even had a serial number on it (CCArms, LGB-A001) to make it legal. The mag-well accepted Glock magazines and the forearm had a dovetail for a light and posts for a sling. The sights were on the barrel-tube, a tall ghost-ring rear and a simple, hooded post in the front.
Samson took the weapon out for first firing and he encountered some short-stroking. He determined that the bolt had some burs on it that were scraping the molded-in metal guides that trapped the bolt. He stoned the bolt to slightly chamfer the rough edges and reran the test with only two failures of the bolt to travel far enough back to pick up a new round.
Samson reread the notes the builder sent with the "build" and learned that there were spacers in the buffer-tube to increase the preload on the spring. He started playing around by removing spacers and deliberately "limp-wristing" the wimpy, generic, white-box 9mm ammo in an attempt to make it not-cycle. He stopped removing spacers when it ran ten-in-a-row even in limp-wrist mode.
Once he was happy with how the rifle was tuned in, he filed the front sight to raise the point of aim to a 75 meter zero and then invited Amira, Sarah and Sig to shoot it.
Bracing the weapon against a tree trunk, simulating shooting from a doorway, Amira was able to keep ten shots at fifty meters in a group no larger than a softball.
Sig suggested that the front post should be thicker for better low-light visibility. He also suggested that wooden butt-stocks could be fabricated in Copperhead Cove to reduce cost at a penalty in weight.
"How soon can we have all 20?" Amira asked.
Samson frowned. "There are always bugs that don't show up until the lead units get enough exposure to several different shooters and different types of ammo. I want to make five and get them out to shooters of different heights and get some rounds through them."
"After we bubble-up and solve the issues on those, I want to make another batch of five" Samson replied. He had anticipated the question. "Point being, if we have the parts in-hand, they are much easier to modify as loose-parts. If I build them into working rifles then we risk damaging the receivers if we have to do a full disassembly. The receiver is just plastic, after all."
"I want one of the first ones" Amira said.
"If it is alright with Sarah and Sig, you can have the one you are holding" Samson said.
That brought a BIG smile to Amira's face.
"The next question is, where are we going to get $2000 for the parts and another $1000 for ammo, extra magazines and other odds-and-ends?" Samson asked.
---Note to my readers---
Thank-you for all of your comments on the previous Cumberland Saga post!
This is a work of fiction and undoubtedly many of my more sophisticated readers are already thinking..."but it doesn't work that way...". My challenge as a writer is to produce vaguely technical sounding text that seems plausible and paints pictures in the reader's heads while not strangling the story with excessive detail.
I will be disappointed if some commenters don't take me to task, though.
9mm seemed like the only choice. It is the cheapest centerfire ammo and really does replicate .22LR ballistics with three times the mass out of a 6" barrel. Longer barrels only gain about 100fps compared to a 6" barrel according to Ballistics By The Inch.
Ballistics: 2" high at 50 meters with a 75 meter zero and 3" below the line-of-sight at 100 meters. With a muzzle velocity of 1100fps, velocities of 1020fps at 50 meters and 960fps at 100 meters. Getting plunked in the noggin or heart/lungs by 124 grains at 960fps will quickly end the party for you, even if the bullet is going too slowly to expand.
The final nail in the coffin of 9mm vs .22LR is that most centerfire arms are less likely to be damaged by dry-firing than most rimfire arms. When ammo is dear and noise is to be avoided, dry-firing is your friend. It makes flinches disappear.
To the Marines out there: Samson was not a Marine but is allowed to be on the ring by virtue of being able to shoot as well as a Marine.
---End notes---
I had never thought of a 9mm carbine?! It certainly meets the criteria, and yeah, 3D printers are wonderful things.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, seeing the way drones have already changed things militarily, I don't think most people grasp how evolutionary those things are going to prove to be. They're even recycling old soda bottles into material for them. Crazy!
I like it! 3D printing ever occurred to me.
ReplyDeleteTypos-
He stoned the bolts and reran the test with only two failure (s) of the bolt to travel far enough back to pick up a new round.
“wimp(l)y”
“…and get(s) some rounds through them…”
“…get enough exposure to (a) several different shooters…”
Absolutely. We want nun of those wimply bullets.
DeleteI think going with 9mm Para. is a good choice too. Very common and is often one of the most reasonably priced ammunitions out there. 50 paces = 125 feet or a bit over 40 yards. I've shot the Hi-Point 9mm carbine (aka Planet of the Apes) carbine and though ugly and limited magazine capacity, the sights and my eyes line up naturally with them. A natural pointer that comes easily to shoulder (at least without a jacket). Pro-Tip - leaving firearm out in full sun for a spell will risk a searing pain to cheek when shouldered. A wrap with paracord around that area is worth considering.
ReplyDeleteThis one should have some good commentary - I look forward to reading it. I am expecting some '9mm ain't worth a poop' comments. My only beef with 9mm is loading it in magazines is difficult for me (large fingers and small rounds frustrate me). That is not fault of cartridge, just my own experience. I still shoot and use them.
Thank you for writing it ERJ.
Just want to add that a 10.5" barrel with +P+ will do some amazing things at close range.
ReplyDeleteGood choice, 9mm will get the job done. Even budget hollow points are very effective and fmj can be used on bunnies and layered winter clothing. You can get Glock 17 police turn in magazines for $10-15. Glock 33 rounders are $30-35, after market is cheaper. on Tennessee Armslist.
ReplyDeleteBerry Hybrid Hollow Points are my favorite economy hollow points...when I can find them. They are pre-segmented like Gold Dots so they initiate well at lower velocities.
DeleteThat shorter barrel in a longer over-bore sleeve should keep flash down, and be pretty quiet for the shooter's ear compared to short pistol barrel alone.
ReplyDeleteERJ, I am completely non-competent to comment on any of this. What excites me about it is the innovation demonstrated. If we are to survive whatever is coming, it is because we will be be more innovative and experimental that the behemoths of Our Political And Social Betters (OPASB) that are wandering the landscape like dinosaurs.
ReplyDeleteExcellent! Remembering who is doing the shooting is vital when deciding which calibers to use. On another note, Underwood ammo in 9 mm para has the least "flash" I have ever witnessed when shooting in low light situations (baddies can't see where the shots are coming from).
ReplyDeleteirontomflint
9mm carbines do tick the boxes nicely. 9mm is the cheapest centerfire cartridge out there, is widely available and is one of the easiest to reload. Lee sells a basic kit for $40.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to make the same comment twice, on two different posts. I have never 3D printed, but in this video on strengthening 3D printed parts at the 2 minute mark he demonstrates making PLA parts much stronger by applying super glue to them. It seeps into the gaps in the layer lines and glues the layers together. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AExrJ_Y4t64
ReplyDeleteSorry, I guess three times for the comment, I hadn't realized I had logged out. I'm going to make the same comment twice, on two different posts. I have never 3D printed, but in this video on strengthening 3D printed parts at the 2 minute mark he demonstrates making PLA parts much stronger by applying super glue to them. It seeps into the gaps in the layer lines and glues the layers together. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AExrJ_Y4t64
ReplyDeleteNicely done!
ReplyDeleteThank-you, sir.
DeleteCarbine length 9mm is excellent for this use. Sights on these need thought. And getting the shooter to USE sights in a high stress (none higher than having to shoot people) scenario is problematic at best. The mind will focus on the threat, not the weapon pointed at the threat. This is why police miss so much in armed encounters.
ReplyDeleteI thought the 9mm was an excellent choice. It would appear that Sig's concerns about newcomers to the community being deadwood are being nicely put to bed. The community is getting stronger, and its resources are being expanded.
ReplyDeleteWin some. Lose some.
DeleteEvan, Abe and Walter are not very productive.
I identify with Sig. There is a lot of dynamic tension in his position. He has to run a tight ship but he must also be "loose" enough to let his horses run. Sort of like a watermelon seed. Squeeze it too hard and it squirts out sideways.
His wife is a great counterbalance to his impulsiveness.
His well-ordered and predictable universe is coming apart at the seams and he wonders "Why me? Why now?"
As a believer, I trust that I am alive right now because God wants me here, at this time, with this skill set, for His good purpose. No one else like me around that I know of. He has his reasons. And I'm okay with working along if and until I find out why.
DeleteGod doesn't choose perfect men for His work. God chooses men prefect FOR His work. Sig is doing pretty well I think.
DeleteFace it, nobody worthy of the Cross of Leadership SHOULD be without concerns and fears needing prayer and support. Sociopaths seldom wonder if they are "Good Enough", they KNOW they are the BEST for the cattle under them.
Probably why Good People seldom apply too or do well in the sewers of Politics.
How does something like this fit the bill? You got me thinking about what my wife and daughter could easily shoulder. https://www.vanceoutdoors.com/products2.cfm/ID/208477
ReplyDeleteI've shot one in .40 and it works. And is accurate enough. Mags are always the limitation. Some work, some don't. If you already have a G-lock or other brand that fits, it's a slam dunk. One calibre, carbine and side arm. Very cowboy.
DeleteConcur on 9mm as an excellent choice intersecting all requirements. You've got the solution for a "VolksWaffen".
ReplyDeleteBoat Guy
Pistol Caliber Carbine in AR platform especially in pistol configuration, is one of the simplest to teach new shooters to be effective with at closer ranges. Low recoil, easy to handle, accurate and not excessively loud with 8 to 10 inch barrels. Not expensive either. Glock mag all the things for compatibility.
ReplyDeleteABOUT 22 LR Dry fire:
ReplyDeleteI've used these for dry fire and failure to fire drills on my cowboy action shooting set up. Shoot NO Shoot, Windows and Door Shots, Moving targets and Hostage situations are far better IMHO than shooting at paper targets.
SNIP: Then I found several purpose-built 22LR snap caps for dry practice, but they were only good for a handful of shots before the rim was too badly chewed up. Unlike my centerfire snap caps, which are typically good for hundreds of shots, the rimfire versions are only good for a few. And at $12 for a box of 12, it’s not very cost-effective.
So then I came across the weird old trick…
Drywall Anchors
Yep, that’s the trick. Drywall anchors. Specifically the 4-6-8 ⅞” variety.
These feed just fine from my T1x magazine, fit the chamber well, absorb the impact of the firing pin for several hits, and also extract and eject normally. And I can get a 100-pack of them for just a few dollars.
While 9mm is far better, I've found many well loved functional 22's over the years and with training to aim for the belly-groin or face-neck area I feel my semi-combatants are pretty dangerous to troublemakers.
I've often wondered about my luck with 22 LR. Seems everybody else keeps talking about problems with the ammo and I've found keeping the weapon clean, loading the magazine properly and just general TRAINING for failure to fire and stovepipe issues seems to keep my range doing well for the last few years.
The Keltec 22 WMR is very sensitive to poor loading and using light bullets. But a 22 WMR in a carbine is a local poachers first choice in dropping deer quietly (compared to 9mm carbines, 38-357 carbines and larger centerfires).
Hmmmm.....,nice,some printing solutions.
ReplyDeleteThe irony is that on some site I recently saw a article about 3d printing of lowers.......,hmmmmm.
On the upside,3d printers like 80%'s are a horse that left the barn long ago,no matter what insanity in the name of "It's for the children"is passed as law.