The first Just-my-opinion B-stick post got more response than I expected. It is a topic many readers are passionate about.
"Well, Joe, if the Ruger 10/22 is one of your top-three "only one gun" choices, what are your other top-three picks?
The safest route would be for me to be vague and say "Any Mossberg or Remington pump-shotgun in 12 or 20 gauge", but "safe" does not make for an entertaining blog or for educational comments.
Before I reveal my choice, I want to discuss the criteria for making this kind of choice.
The firearm must be widely available. What good is a choice if it is sold only to Law Enforcement Agencies or cannot be found on the shelves of most retailers?
It must use readily available ammunition and that ammo must be inexpensive.
It must have the potential to be a functional tool in the hands of anybody larger than the size of an average 12-year-old. That eliminates most uber-magnums.
The manual-of-arms must be easily taught and friendly for shooters who are left-eye dominant.
The action must be proven and indifferent to lint and modest amounts of "dirt".
It must be a "General Purpose" firearm. That is, it must be able to execute a wide-range of tasks tolerably well rather than be perfect for one task but woefully unsuitable for nearly all others. An example of that kind of specialty firearm would be a 15 pound varmint rifle with a 26" barrel used solely to shoot prairie dogs. Not the kind of tool you would put in the back of your quad when you were going camping behind the pond or catfishing/bonfire beside the river.
Shotguns in general...
Shotguns in general are the default choice for the gardener who protects his garden against rabbits, woodchucks, raccoons, possum, squirrels and crows. It also has the "Oomph!" to protect it against larger varmints although legal entanglements are likely to result.
And then there is the defense of the hen-house where fox, coyotes, feral cats and dogs might be targets.
In much of the Eastern US, shotguns (and blackpowder) used to be the only firearms legal for harvesting Whitetail Deer. A bit of historical reference: "Trade-guns" used in the fur trade were typically smooth-bore, .57" flint-locks. The Native-Americans cheerfully used them to slay moose, elk and bison. A 0.57" round-ball weighs 280 grains while the round-ball for a .20 gauge weighs about 385 grains...a very substantial difference in favor of the "puny" 20 gauge.
It is overkill for chipmunks and rodents and smaller birds but it will definitely kill them.
Shotguns have a long history for home-defense. The only potential downside is limited ammo capacity.
In a shit-hits-the-fan scenario you are going to be ground-sluicing a lot more game than wing-shooting so I give that capability far less consideration than most people do. In my opinion, the entire wing-shooting ethic came about because ground-sluicing is TOO effective and is hard on game populations.
And the winner is...
The Mossberg 590 in "Fudd" rather than "Tact-i-cool" furniture.
Personally, I would pick the #50699 version in 20 gauge with the 8 + 1 ammo capacity, ghost-ring sights and synthetic stock. I would also pick up a case of Federal or Remington ammo loaded with #7.5 shot, the largest size shot commonly sold by-the-case.
12 gauge is also fine but skip the .410 offerings due to ammo availability issues and being less versatile out in the field.
The Remington 870 is not a bad choice. You can buy magazine extensions to increase ammo capacity but then it is not an off-the-shelf gun. The Remington 870 is also hampered by the safety which is not ambidextrous.
The Maverick 88 is an economy version of the Mossberg pump shotgun but it does not have the ambidextrous safety or the ability to upgrade magazine capacity. Frankly, the extra capacity is frosting on the cake. I rarely stuff more than two shells into my boom-stick when going forth to defend hearth, home and garden.
If you have some other shotgun, don't have a hissy-fit. It is probably a fine weapon. These kinds of blog posts are to give the gunny-guys something to squabble about and to supply a frame-of-reference for people who never thought about purchasing a firearm.
Lately been ridiculed by the guys on the firing line when testing my Sig P365 SAS which rides in an ankle holster most days. With each round went a puff of sock lint engendring a roll of laughter and some snears spawned by the notion that their weapon would not be that dirty. Fired flawlessly sock lint and all. I will also mention the barrel is ported. When I bought the gun I took it back to the range and dumped the mag twice in rapid fire that got me scolded. Once single right handed and once single left handed. All shots in an 8 inch circle at 12 or 15 feet. No muzzle rise and I am no marksman. Sighting mechanism requires ambient light. You put the dot in the circle. Ported means if you shoot close to your shoulder as in a car you will get gas in the face so stick it in their chest. Roger
ReplyDeleteOh, and amen on the shot gun choice.
DeleteI like both the Mossberg 500 series and Remington 870 pumps. I prefer the Remington, but really wish it had the tang safety of the Mossbergs (which for me is more natural motion to remove when mounting to shoulder). The bad side to tang safety is when rear stock has a pistol grip. Which become REALLY awkward to operate.
ReplyDeleteBoth are good shotguns and shouldn't have many issues. I prefer the older 870 Wingmaster to the Express, the later having lighter grade interior parts that ease manufacture. These Remingtons should also have the slotted loading gate to remove any shells that get past the stop when that occurs. The open gated Mossberg - not an issue, a big plus in my book.
Thanks for the post - this should also be a popular topic.
This would be my personal choice also. I’m told by my betters that you need a serious anti personnel AR or AK, but I find the shotgun more user friendly, plenty of ammo, not too heavy. At my age and fitness (lack thereof), a pump or even a simple double barrel would be my choice. I look like Granny Clampett.
ReplyDeleteSouthern NH
Saiga 12, 10 round mags.
ReplyDeleteGunnies get far, far too hung up on gear and equipment. The best gun for you is the one you have.shotties with sights only make sense if your gun has a rifled barrel. And you’re shooting slugs. Tactically…they don’t make sense unless you are in very close quarters in a target rich environment where spreading patterns are not a concern. The question then becomes - how did you let your enemies get that close?
ReplyDeleteI respectfully disagree with the comment "...sights only make sense if your gun has a rifled barrel." and here is why.
DeleteWithout sights, the position of your head and the "look" of the target floating over the front bead are the sights. Without practice (maybe two boxes of shells a year) you are guessing about where the pattern will be. With sights, you KNOW where it will be. My choices are not based on how much an expert can wring out of the gun but in how well a novice pressed into service will perform.
Consider you and your bride out of the house and the dog starts barking.
Scenario One: Your 14-year-old niece, who had been binge-watching Walking Dead, looks out the window and sees a large raccoon tearing the shingles off of her hen-house. Calling 9-1-1 will not take care of the problem nor will waiting for you. She chambers a round, pussy-foots out into the yard. Lines up the sights on the top of the raccoon. 1/3 of the pellets hit the raccoon and not the roof or flying over the 'coon. Problem solved.
Scenario Two: Granny is binge watching NCIS when the dog lights up. He is barking at the back door. Granny rack the gun to get a shell into the chamber and positions herself as far away from the door as she can while still having a clear line-of-sight. Goblin comes through the door. Granny center-punches him between the nipples.
Sights give the user CONFIDENCE. They also make the device less user sensitive.
100% agree on sights. Give a newbie a gun with ghost rings and walk around a sporting clays course and they'll do OK and have fun. Try the same with a newbie and a bead only instead and the score will dramatically reduce, especially in the first 3/4 of the course.
DeleteHrrrrmmmmm. I dunno if I can concede that. Given that clays are all about snap shooting, where the trigger is slapped and not squeezed…? I don’t think so…but I won’t quibble if proven wrong. If irons were better on scatter guns then the pros would use them.
DeleteNor do I necessarily accept this ‘minimal proficiency’ approach to firearms either, I suppose. If you’re going to use one…it makes sense to at least be competent with it.
I might be convinced an electronic red dot sight might have a place on the scattergun but whadda I know…
In a survival situation, you want the easiest and most effective means of obtaining food. Many tate game regulations are enacted to outlaw the most effective methods. If you want to know what they are, read gaming regs and ask yourself "why is this banned?" For example, if I'm starving, I'm not going to fish with rod and line, I'm going to put out a bunch of fish traps or or gill nets. I'm not going to shoot a bird with a gun, I'm going to use a net or a trap.
ReplyDeleteGood posts on two different of firearms ERJ, only recommendation I'd make is carry MORE than two shotshells ALL the time when going forth......better to have and not need rather than...you know how it ends..... :)
ReplyDeleteWith regards to guns, generally, bad guys don't like being shot at and noise. If someone invades your home and you unload 20 rounds of. 22lr in their direction, 99% of them will flee, especially if you're in the suburbs like me. Remote farms, on the other hand, are in a little more danger because there's less chance the police will arrive, so in that situation, an ar15 would be my first choice. Easier to use than a shotgun and not as much drywall penetration as you'd think.
ReplyDeleteDisregarding my current physical malfunction, the most versatile item in my gun safe is a Mossberg 500 with a rifled slug barrel that has light gathering sights, shot barrel with various chokes AND a black powder barrel. Further searching through the cobwebs in my gunsafe brings me to a ruger mini 14 (556/223 cal.) its a right handy piece of machinery.
ReplyDeleteI agree with having sights. They help with highly accurate or long range shooting - not just slugs, but also turkey and some other options.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with 20 gauge. I used to be a big fan of it, but these days there is a wider and cheaper range of options for 12 gauge, including reduced recoil loads so that children and the recoil adverse can get used to the same gun as everybody else.
To me it's a great all around gun, and the pump action means you don't have to worry about soft loads not cycling properly.
Jonathan
Love my 590A1, and yes, Fudd is good enough for the USMC, so why not for us old farts?
ReplyDeleteI disagree with "only one gun". I do believe I could pair down to 3 long guns. If it was only one log gun it would be a shotgun.
ReplyDeleteI have a 10/22 and I like it but it requires more maintenance than my Remington made Ted William's magazine fed bolt action. I would choose the bolt action over the 10/22.
I will also stick with my double barrel shotgun. It is old school and it has fewer moving parts, less to break. A third would be a rifle probably an AR-10 in 7.62 for larger game.
I have a .22 over 20 gage in the safe that would be an option for one gun. I knew on old timer who came to Alaska in 1929 who contended that a .22 was a fine moose gun if you snuck up on one laying down and gave it enough time to bleed out in the lungs before you got too close. I’d probably grab my .357 Marlin carbine with several loads if I had to head for the boonies. Light loads for small game, full power hollow point for medium game or defense and 180 gr hard cast for big game!
ReplyDeleteERJ
ReplyDeleteYour decision criteria a well reasoned and valid (so says an old paratrooper). The only thing I would add is that a short length of pull stock is preferable. Smaller stature users benefit greatly from “youth” stocks; larger stature users don’t suffer much from them.
The 20 gauge is an excellent choice for a do all. Lighter weight guns. Lighter ammunition. Plenty of power for most jobs. When I was shooting registered skeet most guys used 20 gauge sub cal tubes in both the 12 and 20 gauge events. Leas recoil = less fatigue. 28 and 410 gauge events were of course shot with the appropriate shells.
Sights are indeed a bonus on a scattergun. Carlson replacement barrels have useful sights if one needed to retrofit an older gun. Lately we’ve experimented with enclosed emitter mini red dot sights like the Holosun 509 and CH Precision sights. So far performance has been flawless. Much more affordable than the Aimpoint Acro or Teijicon versions. Red
The 10/22 is a great choice GP rifle too. We’ve killed plenty of small and medium critters with one. We bought our kids Ruger American rimfires; bolt action vice semi auto. Good game getters.
ERJ 10:25 am - I had not considered how important those iron sights are in relationship to having a constant aiming reference. If your shotgun barrel has a vented rib, there are companies offering several front and rear sights which can be added to these barrels for this purpose. Dead Ringer Beard Buster is only one such company.
ReplyDeleteMy Mossberg is from 1973, so, 5 rounds. In the closet, an ammo pouch (general purpose GI catch-all) with 25 rounds on an old leather belt, hooked on the mag tube, is ready to go.
ReplyDeleteMy problem with Remington, Winchester, most other pump or semi auto shotguns, is the loading gate. With hard handling, a round can be dislodged from the mag tube and end up under the bolt, trapped by the loading gate. NOW it's a one shot/club (pump is locked up till you get that round back into the mag). With a Mossberg, it dumps on the ground, no problem. A seal team, friendly acquaintance, taught me (in the early 90's) how to slot (die grinder) the loading gate/door (for Rem. Win., other) so that WHEN a round ratchets out, you can, QUICKLY get the round back in the tube with a knife or all-tool.