I had an interaction with a Progressive late last fall. I have been sitting on the conversation and trying to make sense of it.
The woman I was listening to had retired from her jobs at the City of Lansing. She had never worked in private industry. Incidentally, even the supervisors who work for the City of Lansing are unionized. It is an uber-incubator of progressives.
She deduced that I was a conservative. She shared, without prompting, that all conservatives are hypocrites and frauds.
Being a calm and inquiring kind of fellow, I asked how she could know that.
She replied "Every conservative I know claims to have a disability and is working for pay under-the-table."
I asked her where those conservatives worked.
Given her circle of acquaintances, it was difficult for me to envision that she knew many conservatives.
She was more than happy to throw the "proof" on the table. "I know some people who work at a combination gun store/shooting range. Everybody who works there says they have a disability and I am sure they are working for cash under-the-table. Obviously, they are all Conservatives."
Let me comb out the speculation and assumptions that are buried in her declaration.
Disabilities
One assumption is that Disability = Unemployable and so if a person with a disability is working, they are engaging in fraud.
That might be the holy grail of somebody working for the city: Get a ruling of 100% disability and then get "free-money" for not going to work. But there are many disabilities that don't make it impossible to work.
My "A-ha!" moment was when it occurred to me that most of the people she was interacting with were probably veterans of the military. Working in gun store is a ducks-to-water occupation for many people who were in the military.
Contrary to popular opinion, the rate of veterans with disabilities (29.6%) is virtually identical to the rate for the general population (28.7%)
The most common VA disabilities in 2025 were:
- Tinnitus (ringing in the ears)
- Limited range of motion of knee(s)
- Damage to sciatica nerve
- Lumbar or cervical strain
- Hearing loss
- Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
- Limited range-of-motion arm
- Limited range-of-motion ankle
- Scars and burns
- Migraines
I see only one disability that makes working at a shooting range a bad-fit. That job is compatible with all of the other disabilities as long as accommodations are available in terms of chairs/stools/lifting-aids and scheduling to limit time standing.
Cash-under-the-table
The other statement "...I am sure they are working for cash under-the-table..." is suspect. How can she be sure? What business would run the risk of hiring such a large portion of their staff off-books, especially a high-visibility business like a gun store. I cannot see any gun store risking their insurance, their business license and risking of high-profile litigation by putting a not-on-books-employee behind the gun counter. Doing that also exposes the business to risk of prosecution for Federal felonies because that "ghost" is instrumental ensuring the fidelity of 4473 form documents.
The reason I bring this up
You might find yourself in a similar conversation in the future. I wish I had the facts lined up to undermine that woman's absolute certainty. Maybe you can do better.
As a disabled veteran and a lifelong firearm enthusiast I agree that gun store employment would be a 'dream job' as well as gunsmith, firing range operator, fishing/hunting guide... But I think the parts of the person that make those jobs attractive are in place long before they're old enough to enlist. I would love to get one of those jobs. I've been trying but it hasn't happened yet. Maybe the employees aren't bringing a paycheck home because they're still trying to pay off the guns and accessories they're buying. I think the Lord is protecting me from that job because I'd just spend my paycheck on more guns and ammo. And then I'd have to buy jewelry and flowers to patch things up at home, so there's that expense too...
ReplyDeleteJoe aside from her getting virtue points and bragging rights with her peers how did this situation resolve?
ReplyDelete“You can’t use logic to reason with someone that uses emotion.” — Josh Sundquist
“Beliefs do not change facts. Facts, if one is rational, should change beliefs.”
― Ricky Gervais
NOTE operative words RATIONAL and SHOULD CHANGE.
I doubt that your very proud for "defeating" you liberal is capable of changing her beliefs.
Indeed, it's a tiny step from OTHERING people by calling them "Conservatives" (dog whistle Nazi) and deeming violence is the proper way to act.
Grey man friend, grey man.
It resolved nothing. I didn't push back. I was on her property, in her neighborhood.
DeleteHowever...sometimes there are people who are undecided. Many of them young and impressionable. If people like me don't respond then those flies-on-the-wall will believe that everybody agrees and they will get swept along.
The response doesn't have to be rude, but I still think I have an obligation to speak up if I think there are any people in the audience who might be influenced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink#Bay_of_Pigs_invasion_and_the_Cuban_Missile_Crisis
The impressionable are being bombarded daily with propaganda that us "old boomers" and other "deplorables" that we're the reason for the lack of jobs, money, houses and so on.
DeleteGlad you read the room well and didn't try to show factual data that she was incorrect.
Still disturbing she figured out you were a "conservative" and felt the need to unload on you.
The times they are a-changing.
BTW any new report of Full faced helmeted ATV driving in your area. Another unhappy data point of interest.
DeleteNope.
DeleteI suspect that person originated at a "Vacation property" a 1/4 mile west of us. The grandparents who own it allow their G-kids to use it for dirt-biking.
A couple of days ago we saw three kids tearing out of the driveway. They didn't even slow down as they fish-tailed out, into the gravel road. Mrs ERJ is a wizard at estimating kid's ages. The youngest was riding a dirt-bike (not mini-bike with wide tires...a dirt-bike) and Mrs ERJ estimated that he was in 2nd Grade....
Driving a loud, motorized vehicle easily capable of +40mph on a public road. Wearing a helmet (limited visibility) and his eyes about 40" above the road-bed.
The oldest/largest of the trio was probably in 5th Grade.
Not choices I would make with my grandkids.
When you prove a libtard is wrong they just come up with another position of total B S and run with that. They will NEVER give up their position and embrace reality.---ken
ReplyDeleteArguing with a liberal is like teaching thermodynamics to a duck. Both are a waste of your time.
ReplyDeleteWhat I have found over the years, is very few liberals actually reach their decision via facts and logic. It is usually an emotional decision where they search for facts that back it up. Facts and figures are often 'fudged' or forgotten if it backs up their theory, and impossible levels of proof are demanded for details that disprove their position. That's how you know it's not a rational matter for them. Rational people with rational decisions will change their opinion when presented with differing facts. Zealots will argue, shout you down, and demand the impossible from you, and in the end, still not accept what you've shown to be irrefutable.
E.g. might as well try teaching thermodynamics to one of your ducks.
If they worship at the alter of political correctness, you're not going to change their belief system with facts.
DeleteIt’s been my experience, especially when dealing with libs/progressives who are in a lather about “TRUMP!” That they are looking for a reason to judge you if they have any inkling that you’re not a fellow lib/progressive. As others here and elsewhere have said they dont want to discuss facts, they want to judge.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like the worst assumption she has predicated her conclusions on, was that it's wrong to have a job if you're receiving disability payments. But in fact it's extremely common. IT's the same thing as having a job while receiving a pension from a previous career, like the civil service or the military.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds as if she's confused it with a case of receiving welfare while having a well-paying job, or other situations where such a thing is strictly prohibited.
Many years ago I worked for Proctor & Gamble in R&D in their detergent division. In hindsight it was a perfect introduction to dealing with progressives - it was advertising driven, all about belief in the supremacy of this product iteration, irrespective of inconvenient facts. One of my more memorable moments was sitting in a presentation to senior management about progress on a hot new product. The performance was mediocre, and the project manager was told " stop confusing the issue with facts". Just like the progressives, cannot handle that facts contradict their cult-like world view.
ReplyDeleteInteracting with leftists/liberals etc. is pointless. A complete waste of time and energy. They are immune to facts, logic or reason and will often get violent if exposed to them.
ReplyDelete